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Oh and if you decide to go the big 2 stroke route... DO NOT rubber mount the engine... mount it as rigid as you possibly can... I hear all the time that people are rubber mounting these and they destroy their frames in a weekend... worst thing about the 400EX frame is mounting a radiator and still being able to run the expansion chamber
 

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why do you not want to rubber mount it? just curious. ive never seen a rubber mounted motor in a quad.

and ws6 if your motor only has 20 hours on it are you sure its just not broke in yet? seems too new to have problems and what about the warranty if its new?
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I bought the machine from someone that put about 9 hours on it going off the hour meter they already had on it. The thing literally didn't have a mark on it, undercarriage looked like it never even saw dirt, tires were brand new, stock chain and sprockets weren't even touched etc.

But, being that I'm not the original owner the warrenty won't do me any good I don't think. I mean could it be the motor breaking in? I dunno.. it looked like an awful lot of goldish dust coming out of the motor, and I've since changed to fresh oil, let it run for 5 min to warm up and redrained it, and found more coming out still. no large particles, all just tiny spec's that are enough to make the oil shine in the sun... something I really don't think it should be doing.


Burket I'd solid mount the engine just like the stock one is, that's not a problem. It looks like that short kicker is going to allow no fender mod... that's good! 450R already has a radiator, so that's not a problem. Just having the pipe built will be the only real cost.. and if a 250R pipe fit in your 400, I'd think it would fit in a 450r frame no? I know it's not the optimal thing for a 500 but it would at least give me a starting point....


indulge me with the starting ritual too on the 500.... it's been a while since I've owned anything 2 stroke, like 15 years.
 

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The problem with the 250R Pipe I found out is that the overall length is too short, the stinger chokes down too far and the muffler is too small of a diameter.

Starting the CR5... 5-7 slow kicks to prime the cylinder... find TDC and go just a bit past it... let the kicker come all the way back up... one BIG kick and you should be good.

There are alot of pipe builders out there but to build one right, they will need your machine all assembled so they can route it right, and the price tag on that might surprise you as well... I did a bunch of research on expansion chambers... there is a ton of science behind them, and if done improperly will greatly affect everything between your air filter & silencer. I have been quoted anywhere from $750 to $1000+ to build a pipe
 

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seen a vid of a guy who put a cr500 motor in a 250R and said it vibrated so bad you couldnt hold on to the bars so he rigged up a counter balancer somehow. sounds like a lot of work. seen another guy put a xr650R motor in a 400ex
 

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why dont you try and find a trashed 700XX and use the motor out of that?I have been thinking about doing it for quite awhile i just cant quite commit to it yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
If the 650R motor won't fit easily, I'm sure the 700x motor won't fit either... plus that bike being an independant rear end, I think the chain comes out in a different place, more towards the middle of the motor. Someone that has seen one/can take a picture, or has pictures can confirm that.

There's someone here in the northeast that builds snowmobile pipes, I think I probably can get him to do an ATV one. If I decide to take that route I will get his contact info and bring the machine to him.

At this point, if I can find a good condition running complete CR500 motor for 1500 bucks and it costs me 800 to have a pipe made for 800, I'm still spending less to make a big bore trx450er motor, and I know in the long run it will end up being alot less expensive... CR500 motor is a cheap rebuild compared to these friggin things.
 

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If the 650R motor won't fit easily, I'm sure the 700x motor won't fit either... plus that bike being an independant rear end, I think the chain comes out in a different place, more towards the middle of the motor. Someone that has seen one/can take a picture, or has pictures can confirm that.
You are correct about the 700XX, the chain is setup more towards the middle of the quad due to the IRS. Would be difficult to use that motor on a standard solid axle setup, would need to have the sprocket close to the center of the bearing carrier.Might be possible, but lots of fabrication would be required.


Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Probably alot more work then it's worth...

In the overall picture of things, here's where I am at with this:

I've talked to several people. Dasa (Johnny and Kevin were very helpful), spoke with Mixxer on here a little bit, talked to Arlan at LRD, someone at Duncan, and Dee from Rage. I tried calling Demon but got disconnected, I will try calling him back.

Everyone, with the exception of Dee said rebuild it. Dee seemed to think that the motor in question may not actually be coming apart. he did feel, that the sparkle that I'm seeing in the oil could very well be caused by the rotella oil....

Needless to say, the Rotella oil is coming out, I'm going to use some Honda oil to flush the motor out, about 4 qts worth, start it, let it run for 5 to 10 min, drain, repeat... then go to a good oil. I have not heard anyone having any issues due to the rotella, but there's a good possibility that this could be the cause. Dee felt that the motor is probably still plenty healthy and isn't actually coming apart since there's no measurable pieces coming out of it, and that the dust I'm seeing could just be break in dust, since the motor/bike only has about 20 hours on it.

So... next week once the Honda oil is here from RM I will do a good solid flush on this guy and see if it stops showing up. If it does, I'm going to go ride it again, see what happens with it and go from there. The idle wrap/tick that it's always had hasn't changed, so I may be prematurely concerned about the whole thing.


After doing the research about the motor swaps, the 650 motor is out. That looks like WAY too much work for the return, but the CR500 motor swap, after seeing that the kicker lever off the smaller bike will work on Burke's 400ex, really interests me. I cam, make a set of motor mount plates so that's not an issue. Mounting the motor in the frame doesn't look that bad. 450 already has a radiator, so it's just a matter of making the lines for that, easy enough. The shifter lever won't be an issue, alignment shoudn't be a problem either. It's just getting the pipe made, and honestly I will try to find a CR500 pipe, see how off that is from fitting, and a 250R pipe as well. I know neither is ideal, but if the CR500 pipe is even close to fitting I may be able to cut/weld it and make that work... and in the worst case have one made.

Anyone know if there's someone in the northeast that builds snowmobile exhuast pipes? I was told there is, but I can't find any info.

That CR500 engine really does look like the best transplant option if I am going to get away from the trx450 motor. Honestly, if it ends up failing on me before it has 40 hours on it (meaning double what I have on it already) I'm really going to get after trying to find a Cr500 engine, **** maybe a whole bike and just take off what I need and sell the rest of it. The whole thought of a brand new engine failing after 40 hours of certainly less then extreme conditions, is bothersome to me. It should not happen. Cr500 engine, at least I know what to do with that as far as rebuilding it. And it's alot cheaper to do for sure.
 

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Your best bet for an every day rider is a 250R engine since that kicks forward and is designed for a quad... the CR500 swap is more of a crapping your pants, ear to ear grin, numb hands, blast for a couple hours tops... they vibrate, and love fuel.
 

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Just go ahead and build a trx600rr about 100 hp and 15,000 rpm...........
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Bike engine is going to make the thing too heavy.... I looked into that and the weight of the engine was WAY more then I thought... not going to be any fun.


Burke I want that grin from a retarded fast machine LOL. Just want to gear it so I don't "have" to do that that's all.

The fuel part, I'll put the bigger tank on that's not a huge deal if the comsumption is a problem. I highly doubt it will be if I take that route.

In the end.... I need to flush this 450r motor. Once that's been done, I should know where I stand and if I'm going to even need to worry about it or not. I'm hoping I don't have to worry about it at all to be honest.
 

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after keeping up with this thread i say "fix" the motor u got no matter what. i say "fix" cause we don't even know if its broken yet. i replaced the crank in my 06 along with new vavle springs, timing chain, piston rings, gaskets, seals, bearings, and just a slew of otherthings. had my trusty service manual i downloaded for free off the web and did all the labor myself. i think i figured my final cost at $750. plus hours and hours of my personal time. and you have a stock motor. so i'm guessing you don't have any idea what even a mild build will have for power. these things come stock at 32hp? ithink . . . and my SISTER could build one to make 45hp. thats quite a jump and enough power to put a smile on almost anyones face. just my 2 cents. don't take offence to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I've had some fast machines before, 45 isn't going to scare me (had a 500 quadracer at one point, etc.)
 

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I have a ninja 650r motor in my trx. the motor isn't much heavier than stock and its fast as heck. The best part about beating everyone is that while they are running racegas and nitrous to get 60 hp I am building around 70 hp running premium. bike motors are definitely the way to go.
 

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have you pulled apart the oil filter? pull the filter, run a box razor around the top and bottom of the paper, pull it flat to see whats really in the oil
 

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Discussion Starter #37
That's the funny part, I did cut the filter and I didn't see hardly anything in it... which makes no sense at this point.

What I'm seeing in the oil I would call excessive... but to see nothing in the filter, didn't make any sense at all.

Machine's going to get a good oil flush out this week, and then I should be able to see what's really going on. Honestly, I'm hoping it's healthy and it's good to go.. but with all the crank issues people seem to have with these, I saw metal dust in the oil and assumed the worst.

At this point I hope I'm wrong, and there's nothing wrong with it.
 

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Heres a guy with one. The guy on the left side of the screen, white fenders/orange frame is riding a 450R with a 650L (air cooled) motor in it with extensive motor work I might add. it was fast, but I beat him on my TRX511. The guy 2 riders over on the big kaw (white/blk) is choosetolose (his screen name) on atvdragracers.com. I think that is his buddy. They were all over there together in their group between races. He might know that guys name and hook u up with him. one thing tho, if you put the money in your 450 motor that u are going to spend with the engine swap, u probably will be alot happier.

 

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Discussion Starter #39
I will check the video out when I get home (can't see it @ work)

Right now... I'm hoping I'm just going thru a couple qts of oil to flush the motor out and am riding it, and not doing anything to be honest.

If that ends up not being the case, it will come down to this:

Rebuild the 450 motor, probably keep it a 450 just to keep the budget in check, put the compression where I can utilize 110 fuel since I am mixing a little now, it's not going ot kill me to run it strait, honestly, I go thru probably less then 20 gallons worth (less then 200 a year) Mild port on the head, mild cam, good valve springs, redo the valves, if there's any reason to... if not, then leave the stock ones in it. The idea, is to aim for reliable power, not go bonkers with it, as I don't want to have to get into it again for a while if I can avoid it.

2nd option, will be a CR500 motor. I did some searching, and can get a full motor from a bike, with the ign, pretty much everything I need except the pipe for about 1500 to 1700 bucks. That's a decent shape motor, not new, but freshened up. The fab work needed, will be the exhaust pipe, and the engine mounts, and a small CC bike kick start, so it doesn't interfere.. this I have the ability and means to fabricate, same with the engine mounts. The exhaust pipe, that I will likly leave to an expert if I can find one. The airbox, I think I can make that work, between the air intake tube from the bike to it's stock filter box, and the trx box I'm sure there's a way to get that to work. Other item, that I think will be needed with the CR500 engine will be the oversized fuel tank, so that way the longer rides I occasionally do will be doable, fuel wise.

Gearing with the CR500 engine, I will have to play with, so there will be a cost of some sprokets, probably have to try at least 3 or 4 different gearing's before I find something that's comfortable with that.






This week (tomorrow) the oil I ordered will be here... tomorrow I plan to get the bike warmed up, drain the Rotella, refill with Honda oil, repeat for 3 qts worth, and evaluate what I'm seeing after the 3rd time.

If it's clean, I'm going to run it for a couple hours, see what it looks like, and try out the 12/39 gearing, see if that works better for me (probably need an hour of riding around to see if it will work out)... then drain the oil again, see what it looks like and make a decision.

If the motor does seem to be hurt (at this point it's a question) and I do commit to the CR500 swap, I'm sure there will be some parts I can sell off to help fund the swap, making it a little less painful. Carb, head, dasa, pcm, wiring harness will all probably go. Only thing I will need after the swap is the ignition, and I want to keep the headlight/tail light, and break lights.... probably pretty easy to do. Just have to find an output off the 500 engine, I'm sure it's got to have one, and the lights aren't a big draw item, should work fine.
 

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A guy I know used to race a 250R with a Pilot 400 top end. If you decide to do a big bore two stroke, that might be something to think about. Then you would have an atv specific motor, and wouldn't have to worry about fender clearance or tiny little kickers.
 
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