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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone ever try to fit an XR650L motor into a 450r chassis?

I'm looking at rebuilding the 450r motor, and with a big bore, head porting, cam, new crank and piston, the # is looking like it's going to be 3200 give or take a little bit.. (motor's still running, but I saw some brass looking dust in the oil and think it's probably a good idea to go thru it now before something really starts to go, if it's not already doing that)

I can, probably pick up a whole 650L bike for alot less then that, steal the motor and wiring harness out of it, transplant that into the ATV (just remove the turn signals from the harness, and it should be fine I think) and be up and running for alot less...

I know the bike engine will be heavier, but at a 650cc size... it's got to have plenty of power no? I know I'll have to have a head pipe made to bolt it up to my Dasa, I have a fab guy that can likly handle doing that, same with the oil tank.

Curious, if anyone's ever tried to fit one in a 450R chassis, would it fit, etc.
 

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Even though its a 650, it is air-cooled which typically make less HP then water cooled motors. Quick searched turned up that they make about the same HP as a stock 450r, even a little bit less.

A 650R is a different story, but I don't know if it is worth the hassle for probably negligible gains if any due to the weight.

And what are you doing to your motor worth 3200?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The 650R motor, I would prefer to do but it's only a kick start and I do believe that the bikes kick backwards not forwards, so unless I totally get rid of the rear fender, that won't work (something I'm not willing to do)

The 3200, was sending it out, having the head ported, valve job, springs, cam, big bore, new crank, rod, piston, and if the clutch wasn't 100% do that while it's there. That was the price that LED gave me when I spoke with him last night.

I called Duncan, they wanted to immediately sell me their ignition, which is a nice unit but totally not what I'm looking for, and that price tag was looking at about 3500 for the same thing.



I talked to Dasa today, and can get it done for closer to 2000, going on a little more of a budget which was nice, going with a little bit more budget stuff, hotcam stage 2 cam, port the head, their air filter setup, not doing the carb just rejetting it for now, not touching the clutch, as I'm sure it's o.k. being there's only about 20 hours on the machine.


650R motor, if it would fit in the machine and kick starts forward, I will absolutely look into before I do anything. But, I need confirmation that it kicks forward first.

Even with the 650L being a little heavier, and the HP not being much higher, I am 100% that the tq curve ot the motor has GOT to be alot bigger/wider then the 450 motor out of sheer size, and I'm sure that if I got into that just to bump the compression up a little, rejet it from stock for the headpipe I'll have to make myself to go onto the dasa system, it would for sure wake it up. And, that would likly be dead nuts reliable, which is more what I'm after at this point. The motor also wouldn't need the radiator, so I'd save a little weight from that, probably put it closer from that too....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I would but I can't do it from work. Have to look when I get home.... if it fit in a 400EX I'm sure it would fit in a 450r no?
 

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you mention the headpipe, that is the easiest part of the fitment. your going to have to make room for the motor by droping the bottom of the frame. things like carb fitment, air filter, and chain alingment, will be way more trouble then the headpipe.

if you have the skills to do all that work then you should be able to handle everything on your rebuild but the porting and valve job. that said the money spent to do a real nice rebuild vs the TIME and money spent on the swap. i would rebuild the 450 motor. plus look at it like this the 650l will be like a 660 raptor and your 450 will run circles around a stock 660
 

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yeah, i would do it if you really want to, and if you think its cool and those are the main reasons, but I wouldnt do it if you want a faster more reliable quad. The motor running right would be the least of the worries too, the little stuff would nag you to death if you rode it every day imo
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I haven't made my mind up to do anything yet. I did order the Honda service manual today, and when that shows up, if the engine disassembly doesn't look too bad I may just yank it and do it myself. Take the head, send it off and have it redone, buy a big bore kit with a piston, and just get a new stock crank (unless someone has a better idea for one that will actually stay together, considering I have about 20 hours on the machine, and it's starting to come apart already!) and just do the motor myself.

I don't think the frame will need to be dropped, if anything I may have to notch it out so the motor can sit down in it a little bit, and maybe lean it forward a little too. Radiator lines look easy enough to make, chain alignment, I can't see that being that difficult. It's not like I'm trying to get a street bike motor in the thing


If I do decide the swap is the way I want to go.. it will be in an effort to put a reliable motor in that will have similar to a slight performance increase. I think a stock 650R motor would certianly do that with a pipe. Isssue with the 650R is I can't get an answer if it has to be kicked forward or backwards to start. if it's forward, then it's a possibility... backwards, isn't going to work.

The 650L motor would pretty much be like a big oversized 350X motor I think from the 86 vintage atc's, but better I would think. Again, a little work to that and I think the performance would be close. I don't know if the carb fitment will be a problem or not... without having a 650 motor here to try to wedge in, I can't say 100%.

I have a welder, and have built a couple things in my lifetime. This wouldn't be the first/last I'm sure.

The thought for a 600 bike engine was floating around too when talking to a couple buddies the other day. I think fitting that in there would be a nightmare though. That, and the thing would be too heavy, probably make the machine handle like tank..... would be pretty fast though I bet. And the sound of that ripping thru the woods.. certainly would make everyone stop in their tracks... wondering who the idiot is in the woods with a street bike LOL.

Air filter I think will just be a matter of getting a snorkel that will fit to the stock airbox. Or, just put a big k/n filter right off the carb... I'm sure that would be doable.
 

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if you were to go to the trouble of all that fab work, maybe you should look into a cr500 motor''' it would'nt take a lot of fab work to drop one in:): and if you have esr do some port work on the jug, you just might wet your self:cool:
 

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The 650R motor is a rear kick, no way to convert it either, and no one in the US sells an electric start kit for it anymore either. (You can get a kit from outside the country, but big $$$.)

650L motor is a decent motor and can be modified to get some good power out of them, but it is a big, heavy motor, but so is the 650R motor. Either one is quite a bit taller then a 450R motor, so they won't fit in the stock 450R frame. The reason you see either motor in 400EX frames more often is the frame is taller, sence the 400ex motor is taller, so more room.

Can either the 650R or 650L motor be made to fit in the 450R frame? Sure, but you will end up doing alot of modifications to the frame to get either motor in there. Its not going to be as easy as just building some motor mounts and dropping the motor in. I will say ALOT of custom fabrication will be required, not just for the frame, but for everything. Frame, exhaust, intake, oil tank, etc.

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Sounds like that's a nightmare, that's not worth it.

CR500 motor, that may be an option. Do those kick forward?
 

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I am in the final stages of the CR500/400EX project... definitely not a quick and easy deal... once I get mine to where I can ride it I am going to be dropping about $600 on a custom pipe to match the jug porting that I am going to get done.

But to answer your question... No, they don't kick forward
 

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the 650r motor can be done they only kick back but i know service honda did a forward kick start conversion i have a friend that has the motor in his 05 stock form wasnt much of a gain but i have to find out what all he has done his quad will run circles around my 05
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This blows.... all the motor options I have been able to come up with are backwards kick, or won't fit :(

The backwards kick 500, is there enough room to do it without cutting off the whole fender? That's what I don't want to do... if the kick will fit without cutting the fender it would be an option but I can't imagine it is
 

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All dirt bike motors kick backwards. Your gonna have to get a flip seat subframe. I promise your conversion will be twice the price of a rebuild.
 

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Years ago when we all went thru a stage of buying absolute pos two strokes just to hammer around the fields, one of my mates turned up with his "new" bike and and the kicker on it was about 4 or 5 inches long. He said the guy he bought it off told him the engine had come out of a trike that had a dirt bike engine put in it, and the kicker had been cut / welded so it could still kick backwards.... It did actually work fine..just a bit wierd..but that was on a 2 banger!

Just thought I'd share..
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hmm. I guess it is what it is..... you guys have done a good job of beating me down on this whole idea. I really wanted to just say F this motor that failed me once after 20 hours..... but it does sound like I may just rebuild this thing and be done with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I wonder how hard it would be to kick a CR 500 over with a really short kick lever like that.

I'm about 250 lbs, and I wouldn't consider myself weak by any means.... I pick the 450R up after standing the front wheels up and putting them in the tailgate of my truck to load it... if I can do that, I'd think the short kicker wouldn't be a problem


Burke, can you get a picture of the CR500 motor in the 400ex frame, and post up the kicker location/length, so I can see where the kicker interferes, so I can get an idea of a shorter one would work?
 

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My buddy put a CR500 motor in a 250r frame. God that thing was a nightmare.

And as many pictures as I have, I don't have any pics of it for some reason.
 

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I'll get you some better pictures of that side when I get home... I actually have a kickstarter off of a CR85 on it and welded a small tab on it to spread the load over more of the sole of my boot.

If you have your CR5 jetted right and perform the "starting ritual" you can kick it over just fine.

Here is the best picture I have of it right now... the 250R based pipe is no longer there... I am routing it out along the edge of the nerf bar and will have to cut my fender for the exhaust instead of the kick lever

 
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