[TrX450rKiD]

On many other topics this has been a common thing to talk about. Let's get it all in one spot for those of us interested in getting one. I want to know what you think is the best cam, and most importantly, WHY? If you post something, please have solid facts to back this up! If you post specs, please try to enlighten us on what these mean to the best of your abilities! Let us know what you think is the best for certain types of riding also!

 

[TrX450rKiD]

Thanks desert! That is the kind of post I am looking for in this thread. A lot of good points, and I never did think about something going wrong, a Honda cam would be better for warranty....

Also, can ANYONE get ANYTHING outta Sparks?? Geez, it is like they are selling off stock cams in disguise, they won't tell us anything! (That was not meant literally...)

 

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by desert_450r@May 24 2004, 06:13 PM
Now I'll add this ... FWIW, those that have had losses on bottom with the HRC cam or a bog, may take note of this: CHM engineering (namely Mike) does a LOOT of tunig on bikes and has convinced me he has what it takes to work on these bikes and squeeze out some power ... He said that the HRC cam works better with the HRC lid over an open lid because of the pressure differences in the airbox that are created in both scenarios ... Meaning, the bike can lose power or response running no lid vs. the HRC lid ... I gathered it as a hesitation or glitch that the HRC lid will help ... We'll see once I get all my parts installed ...  :wacko:

~

Now THAT is interesting to hear! I never wanted to take off my lid because of the water I have to cross often, but the HRC lid sounded good because of the splash guard. However, up until this post, I was under the impression that it did not really give very much power gains over a full lid, so I decided it was pointless to get. This is something I will definately be looking into getting once I buy a pipe, so that I can rejet it all at once. (it will be professionally done so I do not want to have to pay twice)

Thanks for that great info man!

 

[joe1l]

Sparks will tell us nothing about specs, and the customer care dept is sporatic in their information plus charge a premium price for their cam which IMO I want someone to back their product with definite information if I'm putting it in a $7000 quad ... Aside from this, the Honda HRC cam won for me just because I know it's a quality Honda part made in Japan... Not that the Sparks could be of less quality, but going in blind, I'll pick Honda oem over aftermarket any day ...[/b]

Ok, I don't know why people have gotten all bent out of shape about not giving their cam specs. I'm a research pig...i do lots of it, i work with computers all day hence i have lots of time to read about different products. The one thing I know about Sparks is that they know how to make honda's go fast. I own a 250R and Sparks is known as the MAN when it comes to porting...now in the 2 stroke world, the the big engine builders would never give away thier porting specs...these are similar to cam specs, if they gave out the cam specs, then it opens up a chance for people to copy their cam, which in turn would be less money for them....now it was their R&D and I think they deserve to keep some things secret. Ok now back to Sparks, I have learned through weeks of research that thier cam has been made to produce +4 hp over the entire RPM range. Now they do not claim to make more hp then the HRC, they actually tell you that that cam is quite a good one. When purchasinga a cam, you really have to look at what riding style suits you. Some people like to drag or ride with their bikes screaming at 8,000 rpm at all times, others like me like to lug the motor and enjoy the mid range. I know for a fact that when I added the cam, I felt the increase through out the entire RPM range. The power of the motor has gotten better everywhere, which to me is exactly what I wanted. I have heard rumors that the Sparks Cam is a CRF cam that is grinded to their liking. Sparks has yet to let me down with both bikes I own, and I hope they keep adding mods to the 450R. Curtis Sparks has worked with Honda since the mid 1980's, he is a real enthusiast and his work shows. I am in desperate search of Rev box, because this thing really wants to rev now. I raced a really fast DS650 this weekend, it has been dynoed with over 60HP at the rear wheels, it has been at the local riding spot as one of the fastest draggers out there...we were in sand, he had paddles, me I had stock wheels. My buddy decided to race him on my bike. The race was almost dead even till the very end where the DS had about 1.5 bike lengths on me... i was soo amazed, the guy on the DS was all freaked out so they raced again and again about 4 times in total the races got closer, my bike would only be behind by 1 to 2 bike lengths at the very end, but for 90% of the race they were dead even, these races were very long races, about 1/2 mile long. Now remind you, that I did not have paddles on, but if i did, chances are, I would have beat him, because i was losing traction the whole race, where as the DS had paddles and always had traction. Now I never thought that I even had a chance with my 450R but man was it fast. I'm able to run stock gearing again in deep tight woods with NO problem at all. I can lug that motor in every gear and it will still rev out real fast. This cam has lots to do with that. Without it I would need the smaller front sprocket to ride it in the woods like the way I like to ride it.

 

[86atc250r]

I really don't care if Sparks is God himself - I will not buy his cam if he will not tell me the specs -- it's really that simple. What does he have to hide? If I'm paying a premium price for Spark's stuff - I want to know what I'm buying.

An automotive camshaft manufacturer wouldn't last a day not giving their cam specifications to potential customers. Go to http://www.compcams.com/ - a very large camshaft grinder and see what they give for info - nothing to hide, you know exactly what you're getting & with that info you can choose the exact cam that will fit your needs and your engine the best given you know what you're looking at.

Even if I knew for a fact that the Sparks cam would deliver the best power for me it is still a matter of principal - I will not hand him my hard earned dollars if he's not willing to give the basic info I need to make an informed decision. I refuse to shoot in the dark. Heck, if so inclined, I'd take great pleasure in buying one of his cams, measuring it, and posting the info on every ATV website I could just to spite his efforts.

Anyhow - now I've got that out of my system....

I've got a full HRC setup in my quad. No bog & I wouldn't exactly call the power peaky. In fact, the last guy that rode my quad commented several times on how smooth the power delivery was and how he liked it so much more than the YFZ he's ridden.

An aftermarket pipe will also bring the bottom end back to life more than the HRC end cap, so if bottom end is important, get at least a slip on.

Another thing that will improve bottom end as well as throttle response is an FCR. I just got finished installing mine. I could only take it on a short test ride for fear of stirring the neighbors at such a late hour, but so far it feels really good, even not having been jetted yet.

Airbox lid - doesn't surprise me, we lost power removing a 400EX lid vs cutting a hole in it as well...

 

[blake450r]

i went with the HRC cam for a few reasons, 1. its honda 2.it came in the kit and didnt void the warranty, 3.and offers the most power. what else would anyone want other than a bottom end cam, then all you would have to do is play with your gearing. everyone that replyed to this subject got out some really good points and facts and thats why this site rocks!

 

[lukester720]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 24 2004, 10:14 PM
Ok now back to Sparks, I have learned through weeks of research that thier cam has been made to produce +4 hp over the entire RPM range.   

When purchasing a cam, you really have to look at what riding style suits you.  Some people like to drag or ride with their bikes screaming at 8,000 rpm at all times, others like me like to lug the motor and enjoy the mid range.  I know for a fact that when I added the cam, I felt the increase through out the entire RPM range. The power of the motor has gotten better everywhere.

I'm with you on this joe. Different strokes for different folks. I went with the setup I'm running for a few reasons. 1. I wanted more bottom end without losing the top end that I would have lost by changing the gearing around, I weigh 270, so that's slows me down enough plus I don't like to shift any more than I have to in tight technicle situations. 2. Linear power, I like the feeling of good, strong, smooth linear power, I did my homework and knew that's what I'd get with this setup. 3. I had the pipe already, I have raced my friends hrc equipt 450r several times, I outweigh him by about 60 pounds and he could barely beat me. So I thought to myself should I go with the hrc cam or go with the cam made for this specific pipe? Well I got the sparks cam and look forward to victory the next time we race. 4. I've been playing on the mx track lately I also like tight technical woods. Since Tim Farr is a factory backed honda rider I really though he would roll with the HRC cam but he doesn't, he has the sparks agressive cam, so that was also a deciding factor. Before that he had a crf cam, I believe that's probably what the agressive cam is but modded.

Sparks has built his reputation by turning out top quality products year in and year out. He's won quad wars the last 4 years in a row and was engine builder of the year for the last couple years to boot. Yea, Sparks could have showed his #'s on his cam but that's no big deal to me, if I wasn't impressed with the power I would've sent it back already. Before I bought it I asked them how it stacked up against the hrc cam and they told me that the hrc had about 1 more hp on top but that the sparks had considerably more bottom and mid. After riding both I can agree.

I can understand you guys holding out to see some cam #'s, I didn't make this post to bash you guys or say that your wrong. Matter of fact I kinda feel bad that I didn't go get the instruments needed to measure the cam before I installed it so I'm sorry if I've let you guys down. I made this post to give an opinion based on my experences that I've had so far building my quad up. Everyone is different, I prefer to have a good strong bottom end and midrange that pulls hard to the rev limiter and that's what I've got with the setup I'm running. I'm not in any way saying that this can not be achieved with some other combo of parts either.

 

[TRX450rlude]

Originally posted by desert_450r@May 25 2004, 01:00 AM
joel,

I am not that bent out of shape, no biggie, they didn't come through the way I would have liked so I made a choice to go Honda HRC ... Now I guess I should elaborate on my frustration... Please read closely all of you who may feel I'm being hard on sparks ...

OK ... I come from the GM late model performance world especially the LT1, LS1. and L98 and all their derivatives including the same gen engine in GM trucks ... Really, not boasting, there's not much most can tell me about what does and doesn't make power and how to go about it for a certain price range ... From the radiator all the way back to the rear diff ... Now saying that, I have a certain background in the automotive field ... In comparison, I know 100 times more about this than quads ... Maybe it's wrong for me to draw comparisons but I'm still learning here ... I feel I needed to say this I don't know why ...OK back on topic ...

In a GM V8 gen 2 or 3, cam specs are listed in catalogs, on the net, and in cross references all over the place ... There's absolutely nothing secret about an LT4 Cam, and LT1 hot cam or an LS6 cam ... Amongst all the other aftermarket cams for these and any other engine built ... Knowing the specs of the cam are detrimental to where you want the power to be made, what mods you need to make to the valvetrain to accomodate the cam, what sort of volumetrics you want the top end to acheive yada, yada ... A cam MUST BE KNOWN WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO WHEN IT'S INSTALLED IN YOUR PROJECT ENGINE ...They are not secretive about the basic specs which is all we're asking ... Cams are a commodity like thing; not a secret ...

Now I agree about trade secrets like porting as you said as it's purely a manual job and has a certain finnesse to create a final product that works ... A cam is not IMO ... I think they know that it eventually will be copied by a buyer but they want to sell as many as possible before it is copied and the little they let go as far as specifics, they are better off in this respect ... This quad is new and they arguably have the best cam going right now and word of mouth is selling their cams ... Nobody by large gives a hoot how it is bad arse, they just know it is and buy it ... Just like you did Joe on their reputation and that's fine ... Mr. consumer, all you need to know is if it is drop-in and if it works with stock components and have at it ... Buyer is happy ... But some of us just happen to be of the anylitical variety and don't buy an F150 because it's the best selling vehicle in america ...

I am irritated because it's possible that I could have bought the best cam for $200 but because sparks wouldn't devulge specs or details, I wasn't satisfied as a buyer  so I bought the next one in line ... FWIW, I want to know what the best is before I buy it (I won't go cam after cam until I get the result I want) and to feel that fuzzy warm feeling, I wanted specs if I was going to buy sparks ... I may have passed on the best cam for my needs, but sparks didn't make me feel fuzzy, so I place them at fault for that because I feel specs and details are not supposed to be secret ... NOT in a cam ... And I'm sure others have passed for this reason too ... 

So I bought an HRC cam with widely published specs, honest HP numbers and sparks themselves say it's a good cam, along with other builders in the industry have said the same thing ... Now from all the HRC cams I see being installed, I don't see them at a shortage of sales do you? --- Maybe perception maybe not but a lot of TRX owners have installed HRC even after others started offering their cams ...

If sparks is the BEST man in Hondas then advertising specs is a non issue ... like I said before, 90% of the buyers won't know how the numbers plug into the engine's inherent design anyways ... And the thought that they withhold them because they don't want their cam copied is insane ... Anyone that has the capability to grind and sell a cam can afford $185 or $200 for a bench reference cam ... IMO ... And how could they possibly benefit from it being from sparks? --- Would they say, "our cam has the same specs as the ever popular sparks cam" ? ... They would just be known for a good cam as is sparks ...

This leaves no reason in my opinion to withold the info except for reasons I would be irresponsible to assume ...

~

Dude, then hurry up and by the HRC cam...that way just about everyone you race thats not stock will beat the sh!t out of you.....its that simple...go HRC, be out classed..period.........and this has nothing to do with GM ....heck you should have compared it to a Honda car.....American cars even lie about thier horsepower ratings...they rate horsepower at a peak, while the Japenese market rates horsepower at an average.....thats why a 100 horsepower Honda Civic will walk all over a 250 horsepower GM.....think about that for a while.

 

[joe1l]

Nobody by large gives a hoot how it is bad arse, they just know it is and buy it ... Just like you did Joe on their reputation and that's fine[/b]

I don't want to come off nasty, but please excuse me if I do, but I wrote before that I hade done WEEKS OF RESEARCH on which cam to buy, I did not just buy Sparks' cam because he is Curtis Sparks!!!. Now Research does not always include technical numbers like cam lift or duration because to be quite honest, those numbers mean don't mean SH!T to most people, icluding myself. I instead relyed on what people were telling me. I had talked to many people with many cams, one guy had tryed out 3 already and had mentioned to me that he enjoyed the sparks much more than the HRC he had. Again, I understand where you guys are coming from about being upset about not giving out his tech specs on his cam...but what can you do, its a free country, and its his perogative I guess. Regardless if he posts his numbers or not, the cam works, you can hate the guy for his ethics, but not for his work!

 

[TRX450rlude]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 25 2004, 08:55 AM
QUOTE

Nobody by large gives a hoot how it is bad arse, they just know it is and buy it ... Just like you did Joe on their reputation and that's fine

I don't want to come off nasty, but please excuse me if I do, but I wrote before that I hade done WEEKS OF RESEARCH on which cam to buy, I did not just buy Sparks' cam because he is Curtis Sparks!!!. Now Research does not always include technical numbers like cam lift or duration because to be quite honest, those numbers mean don't mean SH!T to most people, icluding myself. I instead relyed on what people were telling me. I had talked to many people with many cams, one guy had tryed out 3 already and had mentioned to me that he enjoyed the sparks much more than the HRC he had. Again, I understand where you guys are coming from about being upset about not giving out his tech specs on his cam...but what can you do, its a free country, and its his perogative I guess. Regardless if he posts his numbers or not, the cam works, you can hate the guy for his ethics, but not for his work! [/b][/quote]
hey Joe...dont give out are secrets....I hope they dont buy the sparks cam....then we will rein......You and I both know there is not another cam that even comes close.....so let us enjoy it...and let them worry about if ours is going to break, while they are looking at our back tires...they will be to far back to see the grab bar.... :lol: :lol: ....Lets say for instance that the HRC or the Hot cam has a better top end...(by the way, they do not). But lets just say they do...Lets say we have a better bottom....even if that is true, we will still be so far ahead of them they will never have a chance to catch up...even if thier top speed was 30 mph faster.....we will already be there and gone.......If I were Sparks and I was leading the industry for Honda's. I would not give my secrets either.....Why do you think Curtis charges so much for his cam....its becasue people will pay it...for his cam, they will pay....that says it all....besides that if he gave you the cam specs...you would not know what they meant anyway.........

 

[joe1l]

When it comes to GM I have nothing good to say. I owned a GMC truck and got screwed by GM the thing starting falling apart as soon as the waranty ran out, it was like a time bomb, just waiting to break, my buddy and I bought the same exact truck 1 week apart and we had the same problems!!! Oh yeah GM told me to screw off when I called to get some warranty repairs!!! #%!*en a$$holes, I now have swithced to TOYOTA and have nothing but good things to say.

 

[Poiks]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 25 2004, 07:14 AM
... I now have swithced to TOYOTA and have nothing but good things to say.

Yee haw! (I work for Toyota corporate)

 

[TRX450rlude]

Originally posted by desert_450r@May 25 2004, 09:50 AM
QUOTE

Dude, then hurry up and by the HRC cam...that way just about everyone you race thats not stock will beat the sh!t out of you.....its that simple...go HRC, be out classed..period.........and this has nothing to do with GM ....heck you should have compared it to a Honda car.....American cars even lie about thier horsepower ratings...they rate horsepower at a peak, while the Japenese market rates horsepower at an average.....thats why a 100 horsepower Honda Civic will walk all over a 250 horsepower GM.....think about that for a while.

I can only speak for GM vehicles and I have seen over a hundred on the dyno and have had seven of them since 1997 ... They do not lie about HP numbers and wherever you get the notion that Jap cars rate sae net as an average and american cars rate their's as peak is unequivically wrong ... Don't know where you got that from and I will not argue tit for tat with you ...

I have a sore spot for sparks not allowing specs not that you picked a cam that I didn't ... I won't stoop to say that I'll put a HRC cam on a dyno next to the sparks cam either ... And I won't say that maybe the placebo effect is in place with all the sparks cam havers ... Come on, you say the cam will wax an HRC cam when we're talking a horse or 2 under the curve to 6,000 where the HRC cam if set-up right will peak 1 HP higher? ... I don't believe that a drop-in cam has that kind of advantage not in the least ... And you say word of mouth and you beat HRC bikes ... Fine, did those HRC bikes have the same mods as yours? ... You are presenting an argument based on limited datea and heresay lude ? ... Call CHM and ask them for a dyno sheet with their full pipe and a properly installed HRC kit ... They'll tell you that their pipe and an HRC kit made great power ... It is the same +/- what sparks has said their pipe and cam does so what gives there? ... I never said it wasn't a good cam, I said I picked HRC over Sparks for my own reasons ... Now seems to me you have taken my opinion and choice as personal as I hear words like "that way just about everyone you race thats not stock will beat the sh!t out of you....." and "its that simple...go HRC, be out classed..period" ...

And the fact that civics are beating GM vehicles that are rated at 250 HP are due to HP to WT ratio not because of how they rate HP ... Take any GM V6 car and any jap compact and calculate HP/WT ratio ... It will prove me right ... Besides the 250 HP GM cars you talk about are totally different animals than the GM V6 based cars so that's not a fair comparison ... Why not compare apples to apples like oh, a 1996 Supra Twin Turbo against a 1996 LT4 or 1997 LS1 C5 corvette ? ... Same manual tranny ... I got my dough on the C5 friend ... By a loooong shot ... That's arguable Toyota's best performance car of the 90's and 00's against GM's best ... Hell I beat Supras with my 1996 Z28 LT1 that dynoed 280 RWHP ... And I did it weekly ... Now F*rd exaggerates net numbers I will agree, but not GM and jap cars don't rate on an average ... I'll fill your fax machine with dyno runs from stock jap compacts til the cows come home ...

lude, I recommended you as a moderator on this board but I might just have to recant my words 'cuz I did nothing to you to deserve that post ... At least joel can keep his composure ... Thanks joe ...

lude, I think you're a good guy who is knowledgeable... But I will not argue generality and I will not argue quads with you because yes, you outclass me ... I stated only my opinions of sparks not giving specs and that's it end of story ... Sorry I rubbed you but hey, that's how I feel ...

But if you want to start a thread in the lounge about imports vs. GM cars, I will take the challenge oh boy would that be fun ... And there you will feel what it's like to be "outclassed" as I feel in this thread and on most of this forum ...

Good day

~ [/b][/quote]
all I can say is you have alot to learn, as do I.........and good day to you also.....no hard feelings, and Im sorry.

Anyway we are hear to talk about atv's not cars...I got out of that scene a couple of years ago, it seems you did to.....lets just have fun with this bad arse 450r..... ....just for you info, I am right about Honda rating horsepower at a average.....I know more about Honda's then I do anything in the world......I know nothing about GM's other then my own personal experinces...thats why I will never every buy one again.....or ford or anything american...its not just GM. I think they would be good cars if us Americans werent so freakin lazy.....And I hope you can at least agree with me that us Americans are the laziest people that exist...

Sorry again...someone pissed me off this morning at work and I guess i took it out on your post....for that I apoligize....

Something you need to think about...You are going about things all wrong. You are looking at this stuff like its a perfect world...in a perfect world all these numbers would be accurate...this car has more horsepower, so its faster. Im sorry thats not the way things work. Its not a perfect world...and alot of times those numbers dont mean anything...just becasue a "item" has better numbers does not always mean it will be better then an "item" with numbers that dont look as good....stock for stock my 4 cylinder Honda Prelude is about the same speed as a stock Mustang GT. and a little faster then a Z28.....but my Prelude weighs the same 3100 pounds, and only has 200 horsepower....Gee according to the numbers that cant be right.....by the way my Prelude is far from stock, I have a Jackson Racing supercharger and some other things done....and you have to have a GM that you cant drive on the street to beat it....and mines a daily driver.....Try not to look at this stuff like its perfect....those numbers dont mean Shiznit.

 

[TRX450rlude]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 25 2004, 10:14 AM
When it comes to GM I have nothing good to say.  I owned a GMC truck and got screwed by GM the thing starting falling apart as soon as the waranty ran out, it was like a time bomb, just waiting to break, my buddy and I bought the same exact truck 1 week apart and we had the same problems!!!  Oh yeah GM told me to screw off when I called to get some warranty repairs!!! #%!*en a$$holes, I now have swithced to TOYOTA and have nothing but good things to say.

it actually made it to the end of the warrenty?.....my guess is you had it repaired several times while it was under warrenty too...right?.....then of course after the warrenty ended, you still had problems.....thats how they normally work for me....And I take real good care of all my stuff.....My Prelude is under warrenty until 100,000 miles. I have 80,000 on it, and the car has major mods...and guess what!...I have never ever had to use the warrenty yet....for nothing...nothing has ever broke....I need to have the main bearings in the tranny replaced sometime...but I will wait until the end of the warrenty to do that.....I always do it that way....by the way this is my 6th new Honda.....

 

[lukester720]

Comparing the hrc cam to the sparks cam is not comparing 2 similar cams at all. the sparks bottom and mid(torque) are set up for technical MX,XC, and hills. The HRC is a top end cam(horsepower) and has the biggest lobes of all the cams. The problem with big lobe cams is the the valves are open too far at low rpm and the air/fuel velocity doesn't have the velocity to produce the power(or torque at low rpm). No air/fuel velocity at low rpm's mean the motor doesn't pull the air/fuel in fast enough per stroke and thats why the motor boggs down at low rpm with the HRC cam.Once the gets to higher rpm the motor vacuums the air/fuel with increased velocity and shoves the mixture into the combustion chamber for detonation.

I hope that this helps clear things up, I spent a little time talking to an engine builder today who is currently working on a 550 stroker kit for the R and he has both cams and prefers the curtis sparks cam for his type of riding which is XC and hillclimbing. I left him a message to see if he has the sparks cam measurements so hopefully he will get back to me on it when he gets the messsage. He has also confirmed what I have said in this post about these cams so you guys can trust what I have typed so far in the post.

I am not saying one of these cams will fit your needs better than the other because I don't know what kind of riding you guys do or how you ride while riding. I feel like I always try to give an honest opinion just like i did when i bought the 02 crf cam and said that I didn't like it, I won't tell you something is the best just because i own it, thats not my style. The last thing I want to do is lose trust with any of you guys and tarnish my name, if any of you guys feel like I've purposely misled you or lied to you feel free to PM me and elaburate on the situation. Thanks.

P.S. I have invited 'chuck', the engine builder I was talking about to our site. He has a vast knowledge of atv engines which I have seen time and time again in several posts. He probably knows more about atv engines then any of us ever will, so I look forward to seeing him on the site.

 

[kingofdunes]

Hey Lukestar720 thanks that was really interesting because I did not know why my 450r bogged at low rpm now i do thanks

 

[pipes]

I had a couple of comments about the air box mods on the 450. When the lid is removed completely, the carb signal gets weaker and in some cases will cause poor performance at cruise (lean) and when opening the throttle even with a large main jet installed. The HRC kit is designed as a whole package and works well when installed as such. This is why when you remove the air box lid major jetting changes are required even with the HRC kit. I know that the Dynojet kit for the 450 totaly blocks the main air corrector to address this issue, and combined with a different needle profile will carbutate correctly. My advise is to follow whom evers kit you install instructions they know what will work with their parts. On the cam spec issue, I can relate to both sides of the fence, the motorcycle aftermarket industry is full of copy cats and im sure that Curtis Sparks fully knows that. I will admit that gear heads being what they are would like to see specs, and if that's the case put a degree wheel on your engine and find out. If your a real tech head use a cam doctor also. When it comes the HRC grind you can always advance it a couple degrees with an adjustable sprocket or just choose a milder grind such as the sparks, megacycle x2, hot cam stage2 etc.

 

[lukester720]

Haha megacycle, that is a awesome cam. I've ridden a few megacycle equipt quads over the past few years and they are really impressive from what I've seen. I kinda wish I would of held out on buying a cam to see how the megacycle stacks up. BTW what is megacycles site? I would like to check them out. Thanks.

 

[joe1l]

When the lid is removed completely, the carb signal gets weaker and in some cases will cause poor performance at cruise (lean) and when opening the throttle even with a large main jet installed.[/b]

Hey would you know if this is true with Spark CAM setup. I have noticed, that if I use a cut airbox lid, that I would get a bit more bottom end but it will not rev as quick as it would with the lid removed! I run a 185 with the cut airbox lid and a 190 without the lid. I have always run open airboxes, and usually an open airbox makes more power everywhere, but this one seems a bit wierd.

 

[lukester720]

Pipes and Dez, I agree with both of your statements, the air intake is equally important to fuel on any type of combustion engine, without it the engine will not run. Cams, valves, heads, combustion chambers ect ect are all designed will air intake in mind.

BTW welcome to the site Pipes.