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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
finally got my cam and 13.8:1 piston last week. this friday i will start the swapping. how about sharing some experiences and opinions from those who have already done this work. what did you all use for a lubricant during assembly? what coolant do you recommend? i understand that replacing the piston is going to be a good fight. btw... the JE kit from sparks is only a two ring piston. i don't want to have any oversights so, all comments are welcome. if i have help, i will try to document w/ pics for the forum.
 

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i used molybendum mixed with regular oil 1:1 ratio. you may need to heat the cam decompressor bolt to get it out. use shop rags to stuff in places where you might drop any bolts or clips into the engine. the piston installation is not going to be very hard to do, the cam would be harder.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 16 2004, 06:56 AM
I thought the Sparks pistons were 3 ring? ... Maybe the 13.8:1 is two ? and the rest are 3 ? ... Don't know, but it's good to know ... I won't be going that high so it doesn't matter to me ... I'll be doing 12:1 or 12.5:1 ... Let us know how it goes, and IMO, you should buy one of them $36 service manuals on ebay ... The paper one ... It will be a comfort when parts start coming off the bike ...
The first batch of 13.8:1 JE from Sparks were 2 ring. I got one of those. Some of the people I know who got the 13.8:1 lately, have 3 rings like stock. The 500cc kit from FST has a 99mm 12:1 2 ring set up. That's what I'm getting ready to reinstall. The oil expasion ring had too much gap, and it smoked pretty good. I'll be getting a new set of rings. So, I've had my bike apart twice yesterday. Put the 500cc in, then went back to the 13.8:1. Needless to say, I was frustrated.

I agree, the cam is the hardest part of the install. Pulling the head and cylinder is a breeze. Piston removal and install isn't bad. Make sure you put the rings on right. The compression ring should have an "R" on it. It goes up and toward the intake. The big valve cut outs on the piston go toward the intake. Use shop towels to prevent dropping anything in the motor!!!

If you have any questions, ask first before guessing.

Head bolts(4)=40 ft/lb
Cam holder assembly bolts (4)=10 ft/lb
Cam gear bolts(2)=14 ft/lb
Desopressor cam bolt(1)= 18 ft/lb
 

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29FTEX, do you have 2 cylinders? One on the stock bore and another for the 500cc kit? I'm looking to get this kit myself next month. You had a problem with the rings included with the kit? This kinda worries me as I will be having someone install the kit for me and wouldn't want to have to pay for 2 topends.
Mickey says the 2 ring piston should last as he says it's been in the 500z now for 2 years. When you get it up and going post how it performs in comparison to the sparks 13.8:1. If it isn't a major difference I would just go the 13.8:1 route......
 

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Originally posted by tuffguy@Aug 16 2004, 07:54 PM
29FTEX, do you have 2 cylinders? One on the stock bore and another for the 500cc kit? I'm looking to get this kit myself next month. You had a problem with the rings included with the kit? This kinda worries me as I will be having someone install the kit for me and wouldn't want to have to pay for 2 topends.
Mickey says the 2 ring piston should last as he says it's been in the 500z now for 2 years. When you get it up and going post how it performs in comparison to the sparks 13.8:1. If it isn't a major difference I would just go the 13.8:1 route......
Yes, I have 2 cylinders (1 stock & 1 99mm bore).
I wouldn't sweat buying one based on this experience of mine. No clue if it was like that before or after install. I only checked ring gap on the compression and oil rings, not on the expander ring (should have). The others were spot on. May have had a bad cut and came loose??? Who knows. Another will be on the way soon. It has to be better than the 13.8:1, it's still only a 450cc.
I can remember going from 397cc (9:1?) to 416cc (12.5:1) on my old 400ex, and what a difference!!! Now, more than double that... it has to run good!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks for all the replies. the shop manual was the first thing that i purchased after my 450r. i had that before my first oil change. i got the original from HELM Inc. anyway, i appreciate all of the info guys. BTW, what is difficult about the cam swap? is it just more time consuming? there is no degreeing involved... right?
 

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The cam is more time consuming that anything, it took me 1.5 hours the 1st time and about an hour and 5 minutes the 2nd time. Don't forget to reset the timing chain tensioner right desert lol.

There are 6 bolts and 2 rubber bands that hold the tank in place, 3 mabey 4 plastic plugs that hold the dust cover in place, 3 bolts for the valve cover, 2 allen bolts for the cam gear, 3 bolts on the chain tensioner, 4 bolts that hold the cam carriage in place, 1 allen bolt for the decompression release on the back of the cam and a snap ring that holds the cam in place. I almost forgot about the timing mark covers on both side cases of the engine, you will need allen wrenches for both of those.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by lukester720@Aug 17 2004, 04:04 AM
The cam is more time consuming that anything, it took me 1.5 hours the 1st time and about an hour and 5 minutes the 2nd time. Don't forget to reset the timing chain tensioner right desert lol.

There are 6 bolts and 2 rubber bands that hold the tank in place, 3 mabey 4 plastic plugs that hold the dust cover in place, 3 bolts for the valve cover, 2 allen bolts for the cam gear, 3 bolts on the chain tensioner, 4 bolts that hold the cam carriage in place, 1 allen bolt for the decompression release on the back of the cam and a snap ring that holds the cam in place. I almost forgot about the timing mark covers on both side cases of the engine, you will need allen wrenches for both of those.
HS! good thing i have three day weekends... :D
 

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:lol: sponge bob luke pants. :lol:
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 18 2004, 04:00 AM
QUOTE
Don't forget to reset the timing chain tensioner right desert lol.
Ok soak-up some of that Testosterone you spilled sponge-bob luke-pants !

[/b][/quote]
Pssssh, just trying to help a guy out and look at the response I get. (Shrugs) lol

I hope this isn't to personal Dez but why do they call you Mr. Crabs?
BTW have you seen KIDward? I haven't seen him post for a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
HELLO!!! if you guys are going to hijack my post with inside jokes, you have to share them w/the rest of us? :huh:
:D
 

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Actually "KIDward" came from "Squidward", Patrick is Spongbobs buddy. FWIW I heard an ex-girlfriend of yours gave you the name Mr. Crabs, but that had nothing to do with your restraunt! J/K Dez!
 

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lol, thats funny! Reddog, did you get your stuff installed yet? Keep us posted man!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ok guys, i guess i'll have to brush up on my spunge bob and catch the show... when no one is around. i am hoping to start my parts swapping tomorrow. the hurricane prohibited me from doing anything last weekend. now let me pick out some new smilies for Dez...
:lol: :wacko:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
well... almost there. does anyone have a 2.26 or 2.27mm shim. i have paypal and have no problem w/ the $0.37 shipping. :lol: this could set me back a week, but i want the clearance to be right. i will start calling around tomorrow.

btw... everything went smooth. new piston and rings went right in and the cam is installed but covered with a shop rag for now. stupid shims
 

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Your local honda shop or servicehonda.com will have them, I believe hotcams sells them too but you might have to check.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Originally posted by lukester720@Aug 22 2004, 11:35 PM
Your local honda shop or servicehonda.com will have them, I believe hotcams sells them too but you might have to check.
i just found them at service honda. i'll place a priority order in the morning if the local shop has none.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
today was a good day...

just got my ride back together. i put in fresh oil, put some 110 in the tank, turned on the fuel petcock, opened the float bowl and let a little fuel run out of the drain hose, and it kicked over on the third kick... choked of course. let it idle for four minutes then pulled a wheely into the garage at 1/2 throttle. tomorrow, i will break it in after changing back to a 14t front from the 13t. i only had to change one shim... left exhaust from "222" (2.225) to a "228" (2.275). all is good so far... :D :D :D :D :D :D
 

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Cool, keep us posted! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
well... i can't keep the front end down from a dead start or coming out of corners in 2nd unless i lean over the handle bars. any suggestions? then, leaning over the bars gives less traction... of course. i may be a little lean, so i'm going to order a 190 main and HRC needle this week. but, how do i get the power to the ground w/o wheelying over? i need a cheap solution. i'm not going to do any suspension changes until 2005. need to start throwing money at some other toys right now. :D
 
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