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Discussion Starter #1
Ok. I searched and searched.. no answers popped up. so here's the questions.


I'm running flat track.
I have an 06 450R. running stock 12:1 compression and race gas (110)

Pretty good amount of power.
No problem chasing the banshee's down.

We are looking to get maybe a little more out of her without making some wrong(and expensive) choises along the way.


If we up the compression to 13:1 or 14:1 running race gas, what kind of power increase can we look at.


Other choice......

We are looking at a 490ish big bore kit. With that said. will it be worth the extra load out of my pocket?
What kind of power can I look foward to from that.



Here's a run down on what's done. so you'll see where I'm at.


Open exhaust, no baffle spark arrestor or rings in the muffler, no box lid, K&N filter, jetted, green wire mod, under driven sprocket, slammed suspension.

It has enough power to get hurt on for sure, but I want to chase down this YFZ that keeps winning and let him taste 2nd place again.

I can run through the pack no problem. Got plenty of launch, and the ability to pick the fastest lines around people.
I ate an LTR in about 40 feet coming out of a turn.
I can catch and pass some quick bikes.
But I need just a little more.

So there it is.
I need to know the power gains of the piston and bore choices.
Can't find an answer anywhere.

Thanks guys
 

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well since your already buying race gas and its not benefitting you at all.. then might as well get the 14:1 cp race piston, put in a hot cam stage 2, and port and polish the head.. and you will deffinatly be leading the pack... your green wire mod isnt helping you either, unless you have a after market cam that you didnt mention.. because the stock one doesnt make any power after the stock rev limiter.. thats what id do instead of getting big bore kit
 

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for one, throw a cam in there, get your head ported, and if youre allready running 110 ocatane, throw in a 14.1 piston.

each mod picks up a few hp here and there.

check the dyno forum and youll see what results are after the mods.

a 490 will have great power, i have a 490 for sell but its for an 05.
 

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first......set your pipe back up with HRC modded endcap and baffle...... gutting a pipe is not the performance answer your looking for.....your bike needs a little back pressure to run correctly...

2nd....put a cam in that thing..... 06HRC or HCII would REALLY wake that thing up....



then come back and let us know if you need more...... big bore/high comp/porting would be the next logical steps......but I would think about HRC header and pipe mods first...... or complete system....... before a piston.....


jmho....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
well since your already buying race gas and its not benefitting you at all.. then might as well get the 14:1 cp race piston, put in a hot cam stage 2, and port and polish the head.. and you will deffinatly be leading the pack... your green wire mod isnt helping you either, unless you have a after market cam that you didnt mention.. because the stock one doesnt make any power after the stock rev limiter.. thats what id do instead of getting big bore kit[/b]

The race gas saved heat in the head. so I did benefit there.
It evac's quicker so it doesn't transfer as much heat.
It did also help a little on the accel. Before I got left behind on straights, but after switching to 110 I could keep up.
The the green wire raised the rev limit, which meant instead of shifting and having to pull back up to the peak power, I could stay in it by running a little higher. Then when I shift it is already close to peaking again.

Thanks for answering the question on the big bore though guys.
Also, wanted to note that the spark arrestor being removed and taking away that extra back pressure helped to gain on the lead pack.

I'm not running 0 backpressure. just a lot less restrictive exhaust than what it was meant to be.

Anyhow, nice site guys. Just got a few people that think they know a little more than they do.
Not pointing fingers, but you guys know who I'm talkin about.

Thanks again
Jeff
 

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haha
 

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The 110 isn't helping at all. I don't care what you think you felt or gained. There have been mulitple dyno's done where bikes with stock compression lose hp using to much octane. And all the 110 is doing is burning slower. Take it for what it is worth it is up to you.
If you want to run the 110 cause you think it helps you need to raise your compression so that it is doing something for you.
You really need a cam before anything else. It will be the best 130-140 dollars you will spend. After that if you still want more there is porting the head, better exhaust, boring the carb.
If you'll read and listen these guys here will help you build some fast stuff. And if your out west and want to see what fast is come out to the FSA series and see some stuff run...
 

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The 110 isn't helping at all. I don't care what you think you felt or gained. There have been mulitple dyno's done where bikes with stock compression lose hp using to much octane. And all the 110 is doing is burning slower. Take it for what it is worth it is up to you.
If you want to run the 110 cause you think it helps you need to raise your compression so that it is doing something for you.
You really need a cam before anything else. It will be the best 130-140 dollars you will spend. After that if you still want more there is porting the head, better exhaust, boring the carb.
If you'll read and listen these guys here will help you build some fast stuff. And if your out west and want to see what fast is come out to the FSA series and see some stuff run...[/b]
dude i told him the fule wasnt helping but.. maybe i dont know, he said he felt alot more accelaration hahaha
 

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dont worry 07, when his piston melts he will be back and saying sorry.

but for real. the 110 octane will only make your valves quieter and that's about all it's good for on stock compression... oh and it smells good too
 

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Discussion Starter #10
dont worry 07, when his piston melts he will be back and saying sorry.

but for real. the 110 octane will only make your valves quieter and that's about all it's good for on stock compression... oh and it smells good too[/b]

Ok so I'll repeat.
The race gas evacs teh chamber quicker and cleaner. therefore less heat.

Therefore, longer piston life.
Been working on engines a long time. Nothing is majorly different between 4 strokes.

So my piston is better off with the cooler burning gas than with 92 octane.
The proof is on the head pipe.

Dare you to touch it after a race with 92 Oct. Then come back after heat 2 with race fuel you can reach all over it.

So tell me how it will melt the piston any faster?

Hell you have to rebuild a 450 every other year at the most, so what can it hurt.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
dont worry 07, when his piston melts he will be back and saying sorry.

but for real. the 110 octane will only make your valves quieter and that's about all it's good for on stock compression... oh and it smells good too[/b]

Ok so I'll repeat.
The race gas evacs teh chamber quicker and cleaner. therefore less heat.

Therefore, longer piston life.
Been working on engines a long time. Nothing is majorly different between 4 strokes.

So my piston is better off with the cooler burning gas than with 92 octane.
The proof is on the head pipe.

Dare you to touch it after a race with 92 Oct. Then come back after heat 2 with race fuel you can reach all over it.

So tell me how it will melt the piston any faster?

Hell you have to rebuild a 450 every other year at the most, so what can it hurt.
 

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I don't know the straight distance on the track but I raced Florida stock car for years and the trick is faster accel coming out of the corners, I would suggest;

a good cam maybe HCII for your 06,

up that compression to at least 14:1,

and maybe try the lightened flywheel if you don't need the torque the flywheel being lighter will allow you accelerate quicker from all ranges, I put one one mine and the difference is incredible, and it's cheap about 100$, my bike raps out like Drag car with it.
You could also try a new rod the knife shaped rod allows less drag on the crank case oil and air.

also try an oxygenated fuel, burns a little hotter but also faster.

For your situation its different than people out west do, they need massive HP and TQ, you need 1/4 to WOT as fast as possible. Your mods are going to be different,

good luck!
 

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well....lets see....

w/o stepping on anyone's toes....hopefully.... let me just add this...



first off......im not sure how racing on the West coast...is any different than on the East coast..... it is after all.... 'flat track racing'......now, with that being said...... and having been on these types of tracks.... I can honestly say this.... IF you hafta back your throttle down to 1/4 then back WOT.... your tracks are truly different....... usually.... your WOT all the way around the track......if your bike is setup correctly.... maybe easing off just a tad to maintain control when sliding....but thats about it.... flat track out here is considered 'super speedway'......WOT, HIGH RPM, HIGH MPH, etc..... at any rate...

to the originator of this thread......if you like running 110TEL.... then by all means.... burn it up.... its YOUR bike and YOUR money...... however, the reality of the issue does not change, the higher the octane, the SLOWER the Evaporation and/or BURNING of the fuel..... this is fact...not fiction..... I am not saying it did not help your bike.... Im just pointing out FACTS.... the TEL (tetra ethyl lead) in the fuel does help to soften the impact between valve face and seat......improving longevity... if your tuned for 110 TEL....then by all means... keep using it....

for flat track racing.... you need a high rpm engine..... so I could not recommend a lightened flywheel.... maybe, just maybe, for a tight MX track....but nothing in the TT or Flat track racing....... if anything.... a heavier flywheel to keep that engine spinning... especially when coming out of the corner where the rear tires are breaking free..... then they hook up just as you begin to straighten your bike out...the additional spinning weight will keep you moving forward......

cam recommendation.....depends on the rest of your build.... for right now..... HCII is a good choice... .maybe HCIII once you add some CC's.....the HCIII will keep you in the 8-11k rpm range better than the HCII......which is all you should need on a flat track......

gearing and tire selection are two VERY important factors on a flat track....so keep that in mind as well.....

and good luck.....

just my humble opinion........me~
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thanks for the input guys.
The first few could stand to take note.
You CAN give advice without trying to make yourself sound important, and therefore sounding like an a**

But thank you last two for the advice on some good start up mods.

I didn't see the point in adding cc's if I'm already running with a bored and stroked and cammed YFZ on the track.

Our track is WOT on the back stretch, drop to 1/4 and back and forth between there and 1/2 keeping the line in the slide, then WOT again.

I also run a different line than most people. and pass them all doing it.
I run midway of the track in the curve, then half way through the curve drop to the bottom toward the straight and race to the next curve.
So now you know how I'm running and where.

But again, thanks to 450RRR and FLSwampRat for informative, not crap starting posts
 

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hey man you are very welcome, good luck on the track! It's been 6 years since I was on the asphalt god I miss it, the smells the sounds, the friends and competition. Lucky you can enjoy it.
 
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