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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Saw some members talking about setting up an O2 sensor in a different thread, so thought I would give it it's own thread.

How big of a job is it to get one of these geared up for the 450? I've seen some kits for sale, but you would need an O2 sensor on the bike, Do you have to drill a hole in the exhaust to mount a sensor? I would like to jet my bike properly.
 

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ooh do I smell smoke 'cus u just got burned.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r+Aug 9 2004, 09:10 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-WhiteZee
@Aug 9 2004, 04:54 PM
its seriously not worth the trouble, just do a spark plug check, and you will be fine.  dont waste your time and money with this.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion ... Tell me, how do you do a spark plug check for every throttle position reliably? ... You can't check the plug reliably at part throttle because loads, and tps varies ... All coloring a plug does is get you set on the main jet which is the last 1/4 throttle ... And on the R it involves removing the gas tank and black dust cover (where all the wires and throttle cable/s run) this can be really inconvenient in the middle of where you just pinned it and shut it off and coasted to a stop ... B)

Plus with all the new oxegenated fuels, and clean-burn formulas accross the country, coloring is not the best way anymore ...

The engines are starting to burn almost all the fuel and residue and the plug check is becoming harder and harder to discern ... (like Gabe said above)

The O2 system is the only way to get her right on for all throttle/load positions short of 3/4 throttle and up ...

And since being off on jetting, power can suffer up to 15% I would think that $200 is a good investment considering most of us pay almost $500 for a pipe that's good for 3-4 HP ...

What do ya think bout them apples ? [/b]
Sorry to jump into this topic, but are you removing the tank and cover to get to the spark plug? If so, why? The tank has a "V" shaped design on the bottom side to get the spark plug wrench into the top of the head.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 10 2004, 12:38 AM
QUOTE
Sorry to jump into this topic, but are you removing the tank and cover to get to the spark plug? If so, why? The tank has a "V" shaped design on the bottom side to get the spark plug wrench into the top of the head.
I guess you could use the mini wrench to get at it (If you can with the tank on; that would be a squeeze for me with my mits and a bit of side loading of the plug IMO) ... I use a torque wrench on plugs with hot running aluminum heads and like to be square on top of the plug when I re-torque it ... IMO a bit anal but I don't want to snap a plug insulator OR mis-torque the plug ... My buddy had a nifty experience with his LT1 aluminum heads ... The threads came out with his plug because the last guy overtorqued them and didn't use anti-sieze ... Ouch ... So I guess I'm overly careful with torquing steel into aluminum ... Long reply but that's my deal ...
[/b][/quote]
I understand your situation now :D

It is a tight fit, but doable for us with smaller mitts than yours. :D
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 10 2004, 12:39 AM
WhiteZee,

I didn't mean to sound like an ass up above I am just messin around with you bro ... If I got to you I apologize ... I get wierd sometimes ...  :D
no offence taken.... posts like yours with valid points are what make this site such a good sorce of info.

i made my first post off of past experience with import cars and what i have learned messing around with them.

"Normal oxygen sensors are only accurate around stoichiometric (14.7:1) air/fuel mixtures. If you run more rich or more lean, they'll give you misleading readings. Wideband sensors avoid this problem. That`s why they're used on every dyno."

since narrow band sensors are not accurate, you would need to buy a wideband o2 sensor, which is only like $90, but you also have to buy a controler to read it. this is something like what you would need.
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?action...ct&sku=06-99110
its a guage/meter with a controler and wideband o2 sensor setup. its $485. thats the reason i have a problem with running an ACCURATE o2 sensor on a quad.

it may be possible to do it cheaper then $485, im sure it is. but the parts required for it to work are the wideband 02 sensor > controller > guage meter. but how ever much it is, im not willing to pay it for the .5 hp i would be losing by not having it jetted correctly. and the reason im saying .5hp is because my jetting is not going to be that far off to begin with. also, my main point to all this is that .5hp that would would gain by spending your time and money on this is not going to win the race, you most likely wont even be able to tell a difference after doing this, if you already have your quad jetting correctly that is.
 

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Stop at a dyno facility and bumb their A/F for a few bucks. I have an AEM wideband O2 for tuning street cars. It uses a common Bosch 5 wire o2 sensor. wideband is much more stable reading than narrow band cheaper sensors. Or just do some hard pulls and read the plug old school style. I will set my wideband to set my carb up.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 10 2004, 06:23 PM
Jet4power sells a kit for $200 and a few guys with YFZ's run them and have good to say ... It's just a bad thing if you are waaay off because the thing will not read ... Here's a quote from their site:
ok well, in my opinion, its a waste of money for that o2 sensor kit.$200 is not pocket change. and when you can jet a bike close to perfect already by just messing around and doing a plug check, i see no reason to add an o2 sensor.

about .5hp winning a race, im going to agree and disagree with that. yes. just because you have " that much more power " you could possibley pull ahead a couple inchs at the finish a improve your placement, but honestly you really need to work on your riding skills so you dont have to worrie about that. it maybe hard for some people to understand that, but if your like me and have a friend who rides an almost stock motor 400ex, that kicks your ass at XC and MX, you realize your riding is 10 times more important then your dyno numbers.
 

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Yeah, who needs tools anyways...

I've got plenty of wrench turning experience, so who needs a torque wrench -- it's a total waste of money, I mean, a quality torque wrench can cost upwards of $300 or more & I can judge my tightening and get it close enough without one.

Of course that argument is ridiculous, but maybe you're picking up what I'm putting down...

An O2 sensor, be it wideband or narrow, is a tool. Yes, you can get by without it, but just because you can, does not mean that it does not have value. If over it's life span, even if it gains me no HP, it will save me some significant amount of time. It only takes a few hours over it's life to pay for itself....

Plug color --- I thought I posted this somewhere, but, nowadays, it seems difficult to get any plug color unless you are far too rich in my experience.

Plug checks on these new 4 strokes sucks, no doubt. I'd gladly pay $200 to have something to confirm my jetting without resorting to wasting my time pulling plugs, burning my hands, taking the chance of breaking a plug in the field, and the possibility of wearing out and/or pulling the fragile threads in the aluminum head.

Racing --- I raced flat track at a regional fair this past Sunday. I was leading the "A" main when 2nd place ducked inside and pulled his front wheel up to my nerfs when exiting turn 2... I was glad to have that extra .5 HP as I opened the throttle and creeped away from him enough to close the door & and take home the $200 purse to pay for my O2 sensor, which I'll be able to use for years to come on any of a number of my toys......
 

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I also forgot to mention... If you don't mind a very small amount of wiring/assembly, you can get an O2 LED indicator setup from JC Whitney (I know, I know) for about $30 (It's actually a Cyberdyne guage, so it's decent quality). There are also numerous plans on the net for building your own LED indicator setup for little more than the cost of the LEDs themselves.

You can get any of a number of heated O2 sensors from Autozone for $30~$40.

Then, all you need to do is find a bung and weld it to your pipe & you've got a sub $100 O2 sensor/meter setup that's useable for basic jetting analysis.
 

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The "common" narrowband sensor is *VERY* accurate. In fact, nearly every vehicle since at least the mid 1980's incorporates one & it helps them to meter their air/fuel mix quite well.

The narrowband's problem is that it's rate of voltage change happens very rapidly on either side of stoich & it's useable range for giving you more data than either rich/lean is, well, narrow - which you have to be mindful of. Many people don't understand this limitation.

A big advantage of the narrowband O2 (opposed to not using one at all) is letting you know what the mixture is doing on the fly with throttle position and engine load - data you will never get from a plug read or trying to "feel" what the engine is doing. Getting this right will improve the engine's "rideability" which can't really be measured in HP.

Sure, many dyno setups use a wideband setup & it will give you even more useful data - but at a price... Just like any other tool, you can buy a cheap one or you can buy an expensive one. Many times, especially in a professional environment, the expensive one is better.

FWIW, a wideband O2 setup can be constructed for under $275 if you're not afraid of a little soldering -- that includes the sensor, a nice digital display, and a control box capable of internal datalogging and/or outputting a data signal to a laptop or palm pilot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So has anybody set one of these up yet, so that we could get a picture of where you installed your sensor? And how much work was it to get it set up, looks to me like it would be quite simple if you knew where the sensor should be.

Another thing, I assume (yes I know what they sayabout assuming.) that your sensor goes into your headpipe somewhere, but with all the developement of the headpipes of these bikes to get the best flow to achieve max HP, would the sensor not interfere with the way that the pipe is supposed to work? I would think it would be minimal, but just a thought.
 

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Well it's been awhile but I have a O2 sensor set up that I ran on my Banshee made by K&N. I had ports welded into both pipes so I could run the O2 sensor on either side. It requires a nine volt battery to run the LED gauge and clips on the handle bars. The LED has green, yellow and red colored bars from rich to lean. It was very difficult to read the display during the day so I did all my tuning at night. After tuning it in I would remove the sensor and plug the port with a screw in cap. It took all the guess work out it, and made it very easy to jet it in from idle to wide open. I also had a single carb kit that made it even easier to change the pilot, needle and main.

I no longer have the Banshee, someone stole it
, but I still have the sensor kit.
 

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Ok, this may sound dumb but I have dealt w/ O2 sensors a lot and this hasn't seem to come up yet. Has anyone thought about the incompatability of the O2 sensor and leaded high octane fuels? I for one run 108 Aviation fuel in my bike and it is leaded. Most O2 sensors are not compatible w/ leaded fuels. If anyone knows anything about this or even why the O2 sensor doesn't like leaded fuels please let me know. Or do any of you all run leaded fuels?
 

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You can use leaded fuels, it will just reduce the life of the sensor itself. The lead contaminates the sensor and will eventually kill it.
 

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First off I would like to say Hi, obviously this is my first response to a thread.

Maybe just wanting to put my 2 cents into this topic.

First off, I agree that spending $200 dollars for an O2 setup on a quad is rather expensive and more than likely a waste of money.

It's a 4 stroke engine and not a 2 stroke. The weather will play a factor in jetting and eng. performance, but unless you have 80 degress one day and say 30 the next, constantly checking your jetting from day to day is just a waste of time.

Take it to a performance shop with a dyno that has the loading capabilites and get the jetting set and be done with it... Yeah, possibley come winter (depending on where you live) maybe bump it up on the main, but otherwise leave it be.

If you are an experienced enough rider, than if the jetting is off you should be able to tell just by riding it...

I don't beleive that you can lose up to 15% HP from jetting with out you knowing, as with a 35 Hp quad, that would equal at least a 5.25 HP loss, I dont think you need an o2 setup to feel that kind of HP loss.

Taking a plug reading on a 4 stroke is again a waste of time as to many variables play into it, and your only getting a reading of full throttle, which is good for a 2 stroke eng. but not a 4 stroke where your using more 1/8 to a 1/4 throttle position than you are full throttle.

Just for note: positioning of the O2 sensor should be at least 3 inch down from the collector. As far as the sensor itself causing a problem with the flow of the exhaust, what you want to do is take the O2 sensor out after you take your readings and use a plug that will fit into the weld bung. If you constantly leave the sensor in the pipe during everyday riding you will lesson the life of the sensor. greatly.

Just my 2 cents
 

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Your right Desert, a dyno cannot exactly predict what effects wind and rider weight will have on the jetting, however a Superflo dyno does have the capablilites to load the drum at different ratio's and get you pretty darn close.

Although there is no dout that an O2 sensor works well, as I use one everyday with a Lamda meter, the predictabilty of the whole setup is what dyno tunning has over just using a O2 sensor...

Things to remember when jetting:

WEATHER: Are the weather conditions the same as when you jetted it last, is the BARO the same, is the Humitidy the same.....With an O2 sensor setup only, you can only jet it for the specific day that you are doing the testing, a dyno will use a correction factor and allow you to jet it for so called "perfect conditions" whcih is 77 deg. and a Baro reading of 29.23..

Eng. Reading: When using an O2 sensor setup are you taking your readings at the same Eng. temp, Coolant Temp, Oil Temp, as this will greatly effect how the eng. is burning the fuel...

The great thing about using a dyno is that you can create the exact same conditions over and over and actually see what the jetting changes are doing and exactly what rpm range may need adjustment..

But your exactly right desert, a dyno session can cost allot and who the heck wants to visit one everytime they make a change to thier quad or quad's....
 
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