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Lord of Combustion
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
when we dynoed atc250r's setup, the dyno runs didn't show throttle response.
the ride i took on his machine at silver lake did! mine showed more on the dyno and in flat out drags, but if you rode his machine the throttle response was so much sharper that you would swear it had WAY more power.

i told him that little ride he insisted i take on his was now going to cost me money!

i love to work on FCR carbs and was first interested in them for their ease of setting up with alcohol. but i HATE to spend money if i don't have to ( however, given an unlimited budget i would happily spend ALL the money in the world)

i was at first happy\relieved that the stock carb was a pumper and of sufficient size to feed the motor at 42mm. so i thought, it's not an FCR but at least i don't have to add carb money into my budget.

during mine and 86atc250r's dyno runs, we were also checking our jetting with an AFR meter that would correspondingly graph by rpm on the dyno run sheet. it was noticed that the mix consistency ratio was much more stable on the FCR carb, closer to a flat line. the stock carb on mine had much more inconsistency in its a\f ratio. not exactly like a sine wave, mind you, but not very straight.

the FCR is more tunable and also has more air bleed\jet combos than most other carbs and i attribute the stability to the extra circuits providing finer transition from one vacuum level to the next. there used to be a wonderful FCR tuning article by patrick burns on the net if anyone is interested.

anyways, the response is ( as many of you correctly stated) phenominal. so much so that i spent a good deal of my initial ride laughing. shame on honda for not giving us this carb with the machine!!

buy the '03 crf carb from service honda
the air boot adaptor from noss machine
use 86atc250r's tps wiring guide from this site

i haven't put the machine back on the dyno yet (i'm sure it's about 700hp now :D )
because on my second test ride one of the rear carrier bearings failed


does any one have the real poop on the worth of double row roller carriers vs. double row tapered bearing carriers??
friction? longevity??
i'm kind of in a rush!

.................mixxer
 

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In the Tapered carriers I've run, you lose quite a bit of chain adjustment & the bearing preload setting is critical.

The factory carrier on the 450R, I believe, is a single on one side and double on the other.
 

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Lord of Combustion
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
'86, as always you supply a wealth of info. thanks.........mixxer
 

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Originally posted by mixxer@Sep 26 2004, 06:37 AM
buy the '03 crf carb from service honda
        the air boot adaptor from noss machine
        use 86atc250r's tps wiring guide from this site
hey mixxer, could you direct me to this "wiring guide". Im starting to fell like putting the FCR on my TO-DO list
 

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Oh, and one more thing. Is it hard to operate the choke on the new carb. Living in Canada, the choke sure comes in handy :D
 

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Lord of Combustion
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
courtesy of '86 the wiring cross goes as follows:

pink=blue
green=yellow
grn\ylw=black


do it! do it now!..............mixxer
 

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Originally posted by UFOmile450r@Sep 26 2004, 02:51 PM
Oh, and one more thing. Is it hard to operate the choke on the new carb. Living in Canada, the choke sure comes in handy :D
The choke on the FCR is just as easy to use as the stocker
 

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Lord of Combustion
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
holeshot , i think he means that with fingers frozen by the canadian climate, it's easier to find the lever than a button.

.................mixxer
 

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Yah thats what i meant. Cuz ive seen a picture of a crf carb and its a pull choke. I was wondering if its hard to reach. Also, i went to my Honda dealer today and they told me that a 03 crf 450r carb was 264$ CAN. Does this sound normal, cuz i was expecting around 600$ CAN!
 

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Well i know the owner of the shop personaly (i go ride with him) and i made sher it was a crf, he was even suprised, he tough it was 800$ CAN each. I might go buy one in the next few weeks but first i have to get the adapter. Maybe it doesnt come with the jet and needles. Oh well, ill have to buy a dynojet kit for my mods anyways.
 

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Originally posted by UFOmile450r@Sep 28 2004, 08:37 PM
Yah thats what i meant. Cuz ive seen a picture of a crf carb and its a pull choke.  I was wondering if its hard to reach. Also, i went to my Honda dealer today and they told me that a 03 crf 450r carb was 264$ CAN. Does this sound normal, cuz i was expecting around 600$ CAN!
I have the FCR carb on my 450R and I go to the mount right under the tank where the gas lever is. Once my hand is there, I just reach right under there and straight up and there's the choke. What I'm saying is, once you pin point where the choke is. It's just as easy to pull the choke as it is on the stock carb. No problem at all. :D

Piece of cake!!


Also, I paid $600 even for my carb and billet ring that fit the air box nose perfect!!
 

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Lord of Combustion
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
the trx will hit the dyno tomorrow (9\30). the new carrier bearings are in.

i've got to do the testing tomorrow or it will have to wait since my usual engine obsession will be temporarily derailed by my blood lust. mich bowhunting begins 10\1.
...........mixxer
 

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Ill tell you the dealer. Its called RL equipment in Verner Ont. the phone # is 705-594-2373. Ask for parts. Tell them the guy in verner with the 450r sent yah. He'll know since theres only one 450r in this and sorrounding towns. Find out for yourself if the carb is for real.

Oh, and to moderators out there, i hope im not breaking the advertising rule. Im just telling them where to get the carb.
 

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Originally posted by 86atc250r@Oct 1 2004, 07:02 PM
Welllllll.... 

What's the dyno say with the FCR now? Less HP?  More? Same? I'm guessing roughly the same.
I'm sure it's the same. But, one quad to the other(stock carb to FCR),,, mine feels like it has way more torque than the stocker.,My quad feels like the 465ex stroker I built. MONSTER TORQUE!!!! :D
 

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Lord of Combustion
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
here's the scoop. unbelievably they are exactly the same . the diff in response is crazy and would make you think it made more of something....but it doesn't

before i rode gabes' i didn't think that there would be any advantage to an fcr given the size and fact that they are both pumpers. there is an undeniable increase in responsive feel to the fcr, but as i said, no diff in measured power. mine jetted in with a 155 main, 170 came stock.

on a side note: today tuffguy and friends stopped by on their way to silver lake.

tuff had his trx500 in tow with these mods:

fst 500cc 12:1 kit\ air box mod \ sparks cam \ full yoshimura exhaust\ stock carb
with 195 (recommended )main

the main was WAY too fat\ best of 3 initial runs yielded a 40.71hp max

with a 180 main hp increased to 42.67 max with about a 5hp advantage over his initial runs at 8000 rpm

between 5000 and 6200 rpm the 500motor had between .5 and 1.5hp advantage over my high comp setup with an odd 1.5hp spike at 6800rpm

after that the high comp motor had these advantages:

7500rpm +2.5hp \ 8000rpm +5hp \ 8500rpm +7.5hp \ 9000rpm+11hp \ and at 9800 rev limit +12hp (probably due to the yosh vs pulse charger exhausts
)

we also determined due to the nature of power\ price \ and lack of a core exchange that the sparks cam was likely a oem crf cam\ the hrc cam has way more duration than the crf varieties and was reflected in the better upper rpm power on gabes' 500 setup.


..............mixxer
 
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