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I want to start out by thanking Geoff at MMAD for taking the time out from his family to come to work on a Sunday. For anyone that doesn't know, he's very patient and willing to work with anyone. Even a hard head like me. I also want to thank Julio for letting me muscle in on what was really his dyno day.

This thread is to share information and knowledge gained about MY build and how MY build works with the parts I have around it. I recently posted a thread asking the question "what do you think of this curve". I run a +3 big bore Venom piston at 14:1 in an Athena jug and I run the +3 HR stroker crank. I also run the stock carb being fed through a modded ESR intake (courtesy of the Venom section-it's in a sticky on how to do it). That goes into a Venom head with KW valves in springs in all 4 corners and +1 ex valves. The cam is the HC3 and everything makes the fast exit into a Pulse Charger exhaust. All runs for me were on VP C-12 fuel.

I heard Julio was going to be making a trip out to dyno his build. He runs a stock bore 11.5:1 JE piston and the stock crank/rod/stroke. He also runs the stock carb being fed through the stock air box and intake with a foam filter. That goes into a Rage head with ferrea intake and stock ex valves, stock size in all 4 corners with stock springs. The cam is the HC2 and everything makes the fast exit through the DASA exhaust. All his runs were on 91 octane pump premium. I'm not sure if it was am/pm brand or Shell, but it was pump gas.

Both are 04/05 builds.

It was a good opportunity to re-run the bike on dyno tires and also get to go head to head with another bike same day, same dyno, no excuses. And I want EVERYONE TO KNOW>>>>>>>this guy Geoff running the dyno was a little un-easy about being put in the middle of this. He went out of his way to make all the runs same same. To the point that he was holding up the pressure gauge on the tires and having us verify strap tension on the bikes when on the dyno.

Here are the graphs on knobbies done back in December........................


and torque....................


It made 50.49 and 34.65. Again, this is on a dynojet and knobbie tires.

Here are the new runs on dyno tires.......................


and vs. the rage build..............................


On the superflow, I made 53.2 and 34.x (almost 35) torque. Here is a phot of the torque line
with the paper line at 34. You can see it come up and over.................


The printer was broke, so I don't have the exact torque number to memory. But the HP was 53.2 with the PC pipe in place.
So we now know the knobbies were not the reason for the shape of the curve. The HP peak on knobbies was at 8,200-8,300 and on dyno tires it looked to be 8,300 to 8,400. So right about the same. So maybe it's the old PC pipe? So I tried the DASA pipe. Had one there to borrow, it's been tried and true..............let's see what it does. To my surprise (everyone's really) the DASA pipe made only 1hp more than the pulse Charger. AND the PC had a stronger torque curve. The overall curve remained the same. No change. It's still rolling over before 8,500rpm. So then I tried the stock intake with an open box and a K&N filter. This set-up made slightly more torque down low with both pipes, but wanted to go crazy lean on top and roll over sooner with less peak power. So the ESR was clearly the better intake. So with the goodies I had, modded ESR and the 'ol pulse charger ran the best for me. But no amount of jetting changes or combinations could alter the curve.
It also was very surprising for me to see a pump gas stock bore 450 making within 3hp of my build pretty much from top to bottom.

At this point I am STILL looking for input into what is keeping this thing from revving. With the HRC cam in 480cc trim I was on the limiter all the time. That just doesn't happen with this build. I don't know what I'm going to do. It's not the tires and that pipe still holds it's own. And the HC2 was pulling more r's than the HC3, so I am reluctant to blame the cam. I did not have a big FCR to try, but I am unsure of what that would do here. I am truthfully a little disappointed at this point.
I feel like if it could keep the curve rolling up, this thing should rip up over 55 or 56 on this dyno.
Any input is APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!!!
 

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what i would say is the problem may cause some trouble so i'm going to stay out of it.

but there is something not flowing right if the dasa only added 1hp

hope you get it fixed
 

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You've eliminated alot of variables, I think there's only a couple "key" parts to your build left that are obvious.....
 

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2 things you should do, 1. get a big fcr 2. do intake tuning , try cutting the esr down a little bit at a time, from what I've heard it gives better peek and over rev,

You gotta try all the pieces to the puzzle, and if they don work no harm no foul u will still need them in a new build anyways..

Kinda like my 480 build I was expecting good numbers etc, and didn't get them,and sure I was a little disapointed , but the build is only as good as the parts feeding them..

that's why my new build theres gunna be nothing overlooked just good parts tuned well..
 

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Big Bore Killer
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i have a build very similar to yours except mines a 480...
i pulled 54 on a dynojet but my leo vince ppipe was chocking it off at about 8,000
i'm going back soon with the only change being a rage or a dasa pipe....
time will tell...
 

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If stock carb is so good why do almost all high powered , fast bikes, drag bikes etc not run it?

and from what I read 53 on mmads dynos is 57.X on cts dyno so there ya go its making close to what it should with stock carb..
 

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Wow , i would have thought it would have made more than that. My friends venom 501 with very similar stuff but he had a lectron made 60/40 on kbr's dyno
 

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Oregon Coast Duner
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I have no useful input on how to better your build... Just wanted to say good info and thanks for sharing your hard earned experience with us.
 

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53 isn't so bad is it? I'm sure it's a runner. maybe get +1 intakes, 42-43.5 mil FCR and ride that sucker! I also thought the Dasa would have made more than 1 hp over the Pulse charger. Maybe with a Dasa exhaust (1hp), +1 exhaust (.5-1hp), carb (1-2hp) you are looking at 3-4 more hp? then you are right up there. with 56-57 hp? Good luck!

Grey
 

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53 isn't so bad is it? I'm sure it's a runner. maybe get +1 intakes, 42-43.5 mil FCR and ride that sucker! I also thought the Dasa would have made more than 1 hp over the Pulse charger. Maybe with a Dasa exhaust (1hp), +1 intakes (.5-1hp), carb (1-2hp) you are looking at 3-4 more hp? then you are right up there. with 56-57 hp? Good luck!

Grey[/b]
100% agree

EDIT: was it a classic or quiet core dasa you tested?
 

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53 isn't so bad is it? I'm sure it's a runner. maybe get +1 intakes, 42-43.5 mil FCR and ride that sucker! I also thought the Dasa would have made more than 1 hp over the Pulse charger. Maybe with a Dasa exhaust (1hp), +1 intakes (.5-1hp), carb (1-2hp) you are looking at 3-4 more hp? then you are right up there. with 56-57 hp? Good luck!

Grey[/b]
THIS bike should be pulling 61-63 hp

NOT 53/54/57/58....WITH A FCR 42 OR BIGGER CARB IT should definitly be over 60hp
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I appreciate all the input...................lots of good responses.
Let me try to respond/share my thoughts.

If stock carb is so good why do almost all high powered , fast bikes, drag bikes etc not run it?

and from what I read 53 on mmads dynos is 57.X on cts dyno so there ya go its making close to what it should with stock carb..[/b]
I agree the big FCR will make some more. And whether it's making 40/50/or 80hp, there is a pump gas stock bore (449cc pump gasser!!!!!!!!) making 3hp less than me. AND the curve is really bugging me. I think I may have to degree that cam. Nor*Cal has put the fear of cam into me!!!!!!!! :banghead:

Wow , i would have thought it would have made more than that. My friends venom 501 with very similar stuff but he had a lectron made 60/40 on kbr's dyno[/b]
That's huge. I would like to see the curve on that one. Is it gas or alky? And does your friend think a Lectron would solve my drop off at 8,400rpm?

53 isn't so bad is it? I'm sure it's a runner. maybe get +1 intakes, 42-43.5 mil FCR and ride that sucker! I also thought the Dasa would have made more than 1 hp over the Pulse charger. Maybe with a Dasa exhaust (1hp), +1 intakes (.5-1hp), carb (1-2hp) you are looking at 3-4 more hp? then you are right up there. with 56-57 hp? Good luck!

Grey[/b]
Grey....................
I have some serious time and money into this build. That's a lot more work and a whole grip-o-cash.
I don't know man. And it is a runner. It just isn't where I think it should be.
 

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Big Bore Killer
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i get a kick out of the whole +1 intake thing.....
if anything i wish i could ge a -1 or -2 intakes!!!! lol
 

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53 isn't so bad is it? I'm sure it's a runner. maybe get +1 intakes, 42-43.5 mil FCR and ride that sucker! I also thought the Dasa would have made more than 1 hp over the Pulse charger. Maybe with a Dasa exhaust (1hp), +1 intakes (.5-1hp), carb (1-2hp) you are looking at 3-4 more hp? then you are right up there. with 56-57 hp? Good luck!

Grey[/b]
THIS bike should be pulling 61-63 hp

NOT 53/54/57/58....WITH A FCR 42 OR BIGGER CARB IT should definitly be over 60hp
[/b]

Nevermind, I don't want to get into this......... Good luck Knowpig.

Grey.....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Good luck Knowpig.

Grey.....[/b]
Class act, Grey. I appreciate the restraint.

And it was a Classic core DASA pipe to whoever asked that.
 

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whats the big deal with a line on a chart?

after ya think about it why all the fuss abotu a "dyno curve" its all in how you ride what ya got IMO

a better rider on a 50hp bike will spank and lousy rider on a 60hp bike and you guys know it

so instead of spending money to get the "dyno curve" where you like it, try learning how to ride it better so you dont have to worry about what the "dyno curve" is
 

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whats the big deal with a line on a chart?

after ya think about it why all the fuss abotu a "dyno curve" its all in how you ride what ya got IMO

a better rider on a 50hp bike will spank and lousy rider on a 60hp bike and you guys know it

so instead of spending money to get the "dyno curve" where you like it, try learning how to ride it better so you dont have to worry about what the "dyno curve" is[/b]
to an extent i agree with you. if you can't ride it then it might as well not be fast at all. but imo the big deal is that jesse paid big money and i think he expected something in return. if the line didn't matter and it all came down to how good of a rider you were all the race shops wouldn't exisst cuz no one would mod their bikes.


i would also like to add that jesse's expectations for this build were very reasonable but he couldn't even get that .
 

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whats the big deal with a line on a chart?

after ya think about it why all the fuss abotu a "dyno curve" its all in how you ride what ya got IMO

a better rider on a 50hp bike will spank and lousy rider on a 60hp bike and you guys know it

so instead of spending money to get the "dyno curve" where you like it, try learning how to ride it better so you dont have to worry about what the "dyno curve" is[/b]

But what about the guy that can ride the crap out of his 60hp bike against the crappy rider on the 50hp bike? Bike skill can only go so far.... because either way it's not something that's easily changed.... unlike a bolt on bolt off part on a bike...


THIS bike should be pulling 61-63 hp

NOT 53/54/57/58....WITH A FCR 42 OR BIGGER CARB IT should definitly be over 60hp[/b]
Here we go again, comparing numbers. I believe this dyno reads lower than most dynojets, and that would still be only comparing numbers.... Knowpig wants to fix the power curve.
 
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