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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm guess i am not jetted properly. Because when i just had the full exhaust system on and a open lid with a k&n it had good bottom. Then i put the esr airbox eliminator kit and they told me just to run a 200 main and i think that was way to much fuel for it. Because it did not have the bottom end at all anymore and mid to top just wasn't there either. So when i put the cam in it seemed lean it out more so it wasn't running as rich. But, i still have a filling i'm running a little rich on the main and lean on the pilot. With those 3 mods does it make since just to change the main? Or should i have change the pilot and maybe even put a different needle in there? You see i might be getting the edelbrock carb soon and thats really easy to do all the jetting stuff. I wish someone who has a 450r could just ride mine and see what the problem is. Or could just tune it right.
 

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With the pipe, stage 2 cam, air filter, and i drilled the he!! outta my lid, i bumped my main jet to a 180, and then i changed the needle jet, all the stuff i used was in the dyno jet kit. 180 is the highest jet the gave me, however i am still wondering about the pilot im not sure if i need to change that?? it seems to run fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Why only a 180 that seems really lean. Then again i don't even have an airbox so i should be running richer.
 

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Well everytime i do a color check on my plug its a nice cinnamon brown so i cant say its lean. So im going by that. I also have the dyno jet kit and i dunno if that factors in.
 

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im runnin my dyno jet needle on the middle clip, does this seem right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
LRD Stage 1 System uses a 50 pilot, 178-185 main and setting needle clip on the 5th from top slot. This is for 0-2000 elevation and a open air box. The 200 main is way to big.[/b]
Well yea it is way to big if thats what i have but its not. Again let me say i have an esr airbox eliminator kit do you know what that is? It gets rid of the box competly. I also have a lrd full exhaust system and a hotcam stage 2, which is a mid to top cam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have not done any of that man. They never told me to do it. I called them up and asked them and they said 200 main.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bump... please respond wppracing.
 

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Originally posted by Manny450r@Aug 22 2004, 08:40 PM
I have not done any of that man.  They never told me to do it.  I called them up and asked them and they said 200 main.
here is what i would try w/your setup...

#50 pilot (stock is 48) set you mixture screw back to stock for now.
#200 main and start working backward. 195...190 etc.
put your needle clip in the 4th position (down one from stock) or if you have an HRC or dynojet needle i think 3rd position is correct.

i think that setup is a good start point. then once you get your mid-top end responding well with the right main jet, adjust your mixture srew for your off-idle response. i think that you should definitely have a 50 pilot at least. i am running one with no lid and a DR pipe. it GITS off the line. i left my mixture screw alone. B)

hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Alright thank you very much reddogg.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 23 2004, 10:41 AM
BTW,

This thread is a 13 tooth sprocket thread, lets get back on topic ... (Too much good info goes to waste if it cannot be found with the search feature) ... I know I have typed several OT "books" that aren't even referenceable anymore because someone asked an OT question in a thread ... Not a huge deal, but the info tends to only help a few people in the "here and now" and once this thread falls away, the jetting info in here will not be seen unless someone does a 13 Tooth sprocket search ...

:)
but you got your opinion in there first didn't ya?! :D this seems like a battle between Duncan and Sparks. They just disagree on how to deliver fuel to this motor. You, Dez, agree w/sparks and i think it makes more sense to replace a pilot jet than back out your mixture screw until you loose it... regardless of what needle you use. BTW, a new needle is nice if you need it. i may buy one soon myself and move my clip back up.

i don't have the HRC kit, but i want to know how many turns out honda recommends on the mixture screw when you use their mods. i agree that you don't need a new pilot w/the HRC setup... it's a "less restrictive lid" and an end cap w/the same head pipe. don't think i am bashing the kit, but why would you replace your pilot? not necessary. Now take off your lid, replace your head pipe with one that is 1.25-1.5" in diameter and if you don't replace your pilot... you get a bunch of posts from people asking how to tune their fuel delivery. :lol:

Dez, your a moderator... can't you move these posts to a more appropriate place?
 

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When i bought my DMC pipe it recommended the pro power package wich ivluded a dyno jet kit and air filter, so just goes to show another company is teling a needle change, i dunno, but i did the hole kit and everything seems fine.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r@Aug 23 2004, 01:52 PM
QUOTE
and i think it makes more sense to replace a pilot jet than back out your mixture screw until you loose it...
If you read my post, I said if you have to go to 3 turns, then replace the pilot ... It won't fall out even at 3 turns ... Going from the 48 to 50 pilot should change your setting to a half turn less so 48= 2.0 to 2.75 and 50= 1.5 to 2.25 ... Hardly a difference IMO ... It won't fall out unless you turn it until it does IMO ...[/b][/quote]

i was being a little facetious there.

take off your lid, replace your head pipe with one that is 1.25-1.5" in diameter and if you don't replace your pilot... you get a bunch of posts from people asking how to tune their fuel delivery.[/b]
i say this because many people purchase a pipe and/or other mod and immediately start turning their mixture screw. unfortunately for some, this is the last time their bike ever performs well until they seek help. when i replaced my pilot... the throttle response from idle was dead on. no bog, sputter, etc. just perfect.

I am not going to challenge Duncan because I would lose ... (One guy against a company) ... But I would look at the dynamics involved in why they recommend the fuel settings they do ... (It could be reasons other than your best interest of performance if you get my drift ... It's easier to have Joe Smith replace a $5 pilot than a $25 hard to find needle ... Recommending a hard to find needle in their jetting recommendation sheet would increase their tech support calls beyond belief, now why not make it easy for Joe Smith and have it fuel "OK" with a 50 pilot? ... Afterall, after you spend your $500 on their pipe, they would look pretty foolish telling you you needed an HRC needle, a DynoJet kit or sparks kit ... )[/b]
don't you think that duncan has access to this needle too? besides, this recommendation is for use with the stock cam and it is easier for joe smith to replace his pilot than fine tune the mixture screw for hours or days and get the same result. IMO of course

I know you're trudging through this on your own RedDogg but I want to say this ... Good for you ... !!! ... You have courage beyond most and I admire that ...[/b]
correct... thank U. :)


The HRC kit requires a revised needle with bukoo difference in taper compared to the stocker ... If you or duncan thinks that a one size up pilot and raising the needle one clip takes the place of a correctly tapered needle to provide linear fuel delivery, then they go against their own tech page which they say the needle is the biggest concern of the fuel curve ... The stock needle is designed to run with a bike so corked up that it has a 118 main for god's sake ... How could the stock needle have the right taper ?[/b]
i'm not running an HRC cam.

Also, I know for a fact that the HRC lid provides enough air to feed a piped and HRC cammed motor (high lift high flow cam) and probably provides a more consistent curve than an open lid that induces a variable into your bottom end response ... (Don't think you're doing any better running no lid than the HRC lid for overall power) ... And, if the duncan and no lid require more fuel than the HRC kit, it wouldn't by all means in the pilot, because the bigger pipe and no lid wouldn't come in to play there anyways ... then at the highest power levels the motor makes (where it would make a difference if it did) why are people running main jets as big as you are with the duncan ? It's because a bigger diameter head pipe will not require your jetting to be richer by any measureable amount in the idle circuit or the mid range needle circuit ... Maybe a smidge at max throttle hence the main jet, but not below ...[/b]
are you saying that it's impossible to be too lean at idle? maybe i'm wrong.

I'm not saying Duncan is wrong, but there could be a better way to fuel ... I might be wrong here, but doesn't sparks do the work on Farr's bike? --- Now he's winning ? --- Who did the work on his motor before Sparks ?  ... I normally don't "brand favor" but since you said duncan vs sparks I have to say it ...  :D  ... Red, IMO if I had to pick one sole business that knows Hondas better than anyone else, it's sparks[/b]
Farr wins "some" races, but don't forget Doug Eichner's 450r. and... i don't pick one brand over another. i take what i want from each... duncan - pipe, sparks - cam, etc.

Bro, it's just a needle ... Try it ... I think you'll feel a difference in power delivery[/b]
as a said in my earlier post, i will probably try the needle, but my opinion was mainly about changing the pilot jet size vs. adjusting the mixture screw. i think that covers my thoughts for now...


ok Dez... fire away. but don't write a chapter this time... my eyes hurt.
 
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