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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #1
So with a trip to hatfield mccoy looming, the bike having over 100 hours since the last build (and barely burning any oil woot!) with multiple dune trips and hard sand riding by my house-its time. The hatfield trip will be the last for the current setup.

Current setup is: 12.5:1 CP piston on a sb/ss 06, ported head with +1 valves, stock intake/uni and a dasa. It was more powerful some time ago, its getting tired. Compression is still good last I checked tho. Plan always was to go big bore, but it ran so well and happily for years I never did it.

Planned build is: 468/98mm. I got a nice cylinder kit from my engine and head guy (shout out to Al at advanced machining in Carmel PA) awhile back, CP 12.5:1, clean up on the head if need be and the same as the above. Going to take the engine down to the cases and doing a crank, gears, and anything else if needed. Of course the athena 490 or even the 480 kits are nice, but its really a minimal gain imho and Im not looking to be the baddest MF out there either. The suspension makes the lesser power way more usable

This doesnt need to be a high horsepower monster, all it needs to do is dune and ride the trails really. Also needs to be able to run pump gas because 100 octane isnt always avail everywhere and I generally go at least once a year to a destination ride somewhere.

Thoughts on anything else I should do for the build?
 

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Making HP ain’t free. . .
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My apologies if it was stated elsewhere recently, but what cam are you, or are you planning on running? Who ported your head? What’s the plan for the crank?
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #3
My apologies if it was stated elsewhere recently, but what cam are you, or are you planning on running? Who ported your head? What’s the plan for the crank?
Oh just realized I didnt mention the cam, its a stage 2 hotcam. A friend of a friend ported my head, Advanced machining in PA. Crank, Im not sure 100%, keeping it stock is planned probably a pro x or carillo.
 

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Making HP ain’t free. . .
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I’m not bashing your porting, because I’ve never seen it lol, but unless the shop that did it specializes in these types of heads and specifically the TRX450R, I wouldn’t doubt that you could pick up more power and a better power curve from different porting. Porting is one area that can give you a ton of power, yet it doesn’t come at the expense of anything else, besides the initial money to pay for it lol. More compression is great, but can mean race gas, aggressive cams are awesome, but are harder on valve train, but porting just makes power and there’s no trade offs.

And I would have your crank done over by crank works. just have them rebuild your stock crank, balance, true, and weld, and throw that thing back in.

And that cam is a decent cam, but it will hold you back a bit at times, might not be a bad idea to grab another tower and have another cam in it for duning. Then you could just swap between the two depending on what riding your doing.

So what’s the deal with this BB kit you got. Is it a bored stocker or an aftermarket cylinder? Who plated it? Do you know the P2W clearances?
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #5
I’m not bashing your porting, because I’ve never seen it lol, but unless the shop that did it specializes in these types of heads and specifically the TRX450R, I wouldn’t doubt that you could pick up more power and a better power curve from different porting. Porting is one area that can give you a ton of power, yet it doesn’t come at the expense of anything else, besides the initial money to pay for it lol. More compression is great, but can mean race gas, aggressive cams are awesome, but are harder on valve train, but porting just makes power and there’s no trade offs.

And I would have your crank done over by crank works. just have them rebuild your stock crank, balance, true, and weld, and throw that thing back in.

And that cam is a decent cam, but it will hold you back a bit at times, might not be a bad idea to grab another tower and have another cam in it for duning. Then you could just swap between the two depending on what riding your doing.

So what’s the deal with this BB kit you got. Is it a bored stocker or an aftermarket cylinder? Who plated it? Do you know the P2W clearances?
I trust the port job. Friend who sold me on the guy built multiple different 450s with his porting making well over 60+ hp. I’m not looking to go crazy here, just a wee bit more power would be nice.

I suppose I could send the stock crank in, might be cheaper than outright replacement.

As for the cam, what’s left besides a web or such really at this point?

BB kit is a replated stock cyl.

Like I said Hoser, I just want a little more power. Doesn’t need to make 65hp and be able to drag race.I need some fuel economy and a pump gas set up because I’ve found sometimes when I go on the destination rides to other states fuel can be a big issue. I wasn’t even able to find 93 octane when I went to New Hampshire a few years back for instance and we ride for miles and miles sometimes even carrying a gas can might not be enough
 

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Making HP ain’t free. . .
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If you’re looking for the cheapest rebuild, then just buy a stock crank and toss it in. Having your crank rebuilt and balanced, etc. is going to cost more than buying a new crank. But you said you were thinking of doing a CW or Carrillo rod, so I guess I just assumed you would be sending your crank in. Like your sig says, I’m just a big believer of putting money into the bottom end so it lasts and is bulletproof, everything else can be swapped relatively easily.

Again, I’m not saying your porting is bad, just reading your thread title and offering up ideas.

Yes, Web Cam would be who I would look to for a different cam. Do you already have a spring kit?

Be careful with that stock bored cylinder, some last, some don’t. I’d make sure your P2W is spot-on so you don’t get any rocking and premature wear.

I understand, like I said before, I’m just offering ideas and thoughts like the thread title suggests lol. Just throwing that BB on there isn’t going to give ya much more power. Your current high 40s power, to 65 hp is a huge jump lol, and I’m not suggesting you go to that extreme. And I understand the fuel and reliability concerns, I do the same riding as you, long rides, not knowing if there will be fuel, let alone good fuel. That’s the main reason I run a Clarke oversize tank on my trail quad.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
It was just a thought on the crank, sometimes its worth the piece of mind imho. Thats pretty much why I said I might go pro x (same as stock really), machine has known 110 hours on it since my build and unk before. If I did do the whole balance/true it would be in anticipation of a larger build down the road. Im mostly replacing it just because of all the hours and I dont need to do the top end and have it blow on me.

As for cams, web might be worth it if it isnt to radical. already have the KW dual spring kit in there.

Cyl is stock bored 98mm and replated I believe it might be a cylinder works but not sure, should be fairly safe-were talking 468cc which is mild.

What I think my main issue is, is my builder ported the head and we couldnt get the BB in time so we put it back together with the stock cyl and ever since its kinda been meh. It doesnt have the umph you get when you do the HRC kit setup really. Like that low end smack the throttle and it goes. it has better top end by far however

I wanna get the IMS tank (dont like the clarke hump), but its really 1/2 gallon more. I have a 6 pack rack and can with 1.25 gallon capacity or I can put a 2.5 gal on it and be happy if needed.

Lets see what happens. Im gonna get one last trip out of it then redo it. Gonna be hot as hell this summer so riding tends to be less. My buddy and I were gonna tear it down to the cases, replace anything worn and go from there really. Then put the top end kit on it. I could go up in compression but thats back to race gas, I have the 13:1 piston the BB setup came with-but again 100 octane isnt easy to find depending on where ya are.

Im going to my buddies tomorrow and were gonna work up a list of stuff and go from there.
 

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Making HP ain’t free. . .
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I know exactly what you mean. I put a Carrillo on everything, except for one with a Hot Rods rod, but that’s a whole ‘nother story. If your going to do the Pro X, you might as well spend the extr $75 for a CW or Carrillo. Having a crank done over isn’t just for big builds, all builds benefit from it. I just mentioned it in another thread, but a balanced crank can actually put down more power and increase the longevity of the motor.

There are a lot of Web profiles, some are radical, some not as much, but if it’s just for an occasional dune trip I wouldn’t worry about a big cam too much, especially if you already have a spring kit.

if it’s a CW it would Have the logo on the bottom of the cylinder.

Thats exactly what I’m talking about, somebody that doesn’t know there way around these heads can really mess up the power, which is what you are probably experiencing. With a decently ported head, 12.5:1, and a HC2 that should have a lot of oomph and low end smack. A good head should gain everywhere, not just the top end, it sounds like you lost some velocity.

Thats why I like the Clarke, it holds more than the IMS, and personally I think it looks better lol!

You could always carry some good octane booster in your pack and then run that 13:1 piston. That way no matter what you fill up with you can throw some booster in and be good to go.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #9
I hear ya. Ill prob buy the better crank regardless, do the head over, put the BB on it and go from there. Looking at the BB its not a CW kit as it has no logo.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #10
Y know, another thought I had is that I also changed the gearing drastically. After I did the rebuild 1-2 were basically unusable they were so short with the engine revving up super quick. I wound up finding the sweet spot at 14/37...so that could also be why I lack that thwump when you smack the throttle I suppose. Its been soooo long since I tried much else.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #11
whoops double tap
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #12
well..GREAT NEWS..

Was riding today, started the bike on a hill and went to go and it stalled immediately. Got it fired back up and rode another mile tops, pulled the clutch and downshifted and it stalled. Would not start up, pushed and jumped it. Towed it back, jumped it and it started for a sec after much trouble then stalled. Would not to turn over besides a solenoid click under its own power.. Got home, swapped batteries..still not much more than a click. Jumped it, turned over wouldnt run.

Thinking it locked up. Awhile back the starter clutch took a dump and the one way bearing was actually sorta stuck in there, after replaced it and was fine . Strange, but who knows wtf it is till we take it apart. I do wonder however

Current plan is athena 490 kit, refresh the head, crank, bottom end and whatever else it needs. I could use the 470 kit but decided Id rather use the athena as several other people I know have used them with no issue and it has the extra cooling capacity. Ill toss the 470 kit on ebay or something.
 

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I will add my thoughts on it. Hoser said some good recs. JDM machine has cranks ready to go welded balanced with a carillo rod on them already or I think can redo yours to save a little money.

If I was going to go big bore I would look for at least a stage 3 hotcams. The webs would be my choice but for the really beneficial ones the head will need different guides and the correct spring kit. The stage 3 will give you a little more top and the bb will give you some low end for a good gain overall. Truthfully my thought would be if the head is flowing good and it is +1 all around you could just not be matched to the bore size and going bb would help a lot.

On the bb kit, I would not be afraid to run the Athena cylinders but I would rather have the cp pistons. Morgan has some good bb kits on ebay with cp pistons. Guess it is personal preference but I have had good luck with them over the years.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I will add my thoughts on it. Hoser said some good recs. JDM machine has cranks ready to go welded balanced with a carillo rod on them already or I think can redo yours to save a little money.

If I was going to go big bore I would look for at least a stage 3 hotcams. The webs would be my choice but for the really beneficial ones the head will need different guides and the correct spring kit. The stage 3 will give you a little more top and the bb will give you some low end for a good gain overall. Truthfully my thought would be if the head is flowing good and it is +1 all around you could just not be matched to the bore size and going bb would help a lot.

On the bb kit, I would not be afraid to run the Athena cylinders but I would rather have the cp pistons. Morgan has some good bb kits on ebay with cp pistons. Guess it is personal preference but I have had good luck with them over the years.
My builder has the cranks ready to go, its an exchange. Ill look up JDM or other places if its an issue. i will see about the cams, I really do think your right duke-the head is a bit more than the bore is designed for and thus Im losing out a bit.

I was hesitant to do 13:1 but my builder and the palce I just bought the top end kit from (az quad parts btw, best dang price I ever seen for the 490/cp piston athena kit) toldme the same as my builder-worst case I can get 100 but it aint as easy as pump. But with the cam and the porting I shouldnt have an issue with the compression as it will bleed off some.

We shall see... In the mean time, gotta sell the 470 kit. my only worry now is getting parts due to the corona virus and shipping..
 

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AZ Quad parts is Morgan, that or Modern Race Products. They do have good prices on kits for sure. Mixxer said the reason with his pistons being 12.25 or 14.25 was so you knew for sure to run race gas or not. It is not a problem around here to find, we are close to renegade fuels and a few stations have 110 during the summer due to the local drag track. Sounds like it will be a good build.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #16
Guess what I found. On the drain plug and in the filter. All that glitters is NOT gold


Carillo rod crank. My builder has them for 200 more than the pro x. Might as well do it. Bore the carb and do the head over and whatever else. Prob should do the water pump as well. Maybe boyesen idk

At this point in for a penny in for a pound

Now. Do I wanna powder coat the frame lol
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #18

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Making HP ain’t free. . .
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I’m sure the cases are fine, usually it takes a pretty spectacular issue to wreck cases.

Sounds like you got a good plan put together. When you say have the head redone, are you talking about freshening it up or getting a new port job?

LOL! Powdercoating the frame is always fun, but even though it seems like it wouldn’t be THAT MUCH extra work, it is lol. Plus all the new bearings, seals, etc., adds up quick. And, probably not the best time to do it just getting into the riding season. I know the thought process though, the motor is out, I might as well do the frame, but realistically you can have the motor out in 45 minutes, so really not a big thing to do later.
 

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Truck Yea
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Discussion Starter #20
they are gonna go over the head, do a bit more porting since it has a basic clean up/mild port right now and make sure the valves are good, springs, etc. Im getting every single gasket imaginable, engine bearing, new starter clutch, pressure plate and hub (got a good hinson basket right now), new clutch fricitons/steels, you name it. I do everything when I rebuild one of these so I dont have to do much. Figure I should get a good 3-4 years out of the top end depending on how many hours I ride.

Id like to coat the frame, I have an awesome hook up for it too. But its soo much more work yanking every damn thing off, I do have the color match spray paint so I might go to town with that for now. I went so far as to get all new hoses, swing arm bearings and a new chinese carrier (I swear they are so cheap its not worth even changing bearings or buying the nice one when you can toss the thing and get another when it goes.

my only worry is with going to places like michigan, west virgina (hatfield), new hampshire, PA, etc for longish type rides is how long my fuel supply will hold out. I never had much issue when it was mostly stock, but the 490 is gonna want more fuel for sure. I do have a 6pack rack and a 1.25 gal can I can carry. I was thinking of the IMS tank perhaps.. like I said in for a penny in for a pound.
 
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