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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, everyone We all lover our 450R's, but if you have had any experience riding whoops, then you will know the 450r has a tendency to buck over the whoops. Well, i think I found a solution that does not require you to spend $1000 on a new shock and linkage (like the elka setup). I was just about to go buy the elka setup when I stumbled on some information that Lazurus Sommers for GT Thunder was working on a linkage for the 450r, that would calm the bucking, he had done it before already for the 400ex with great success. GT THUNDER 400EX REAR LINKAGE Any how I called Lazarus and placed my order. The new rear linkage ($125)would require you to have your shock revalved ($75), and new bearings for the linkage(50) or you can use your old bearings from your stock linkage. Anyhow I installed the likage and ran it Saturday for about 7 hours, and all i can say is WOW!! The linkage changes the angle the shock is on, and puts it so that shock is more straight up than on an angle, much like that of a yfz450. This alows the rear to sit an inch or so lower, and gives the rear more travel. Well I installed it this weekend, and i didn't get the chance to even adjust my ride height properly, but regardless, i have never been faster riding this thing. The rear stayed put, and was soo much nicer to ride!! The only thing is that you will have to cut your skid plate on your swing arm to make it fit, but I bought a new PRM skid plate, and it fit perfect with the addition of a tiny spacer. This is a mod that i recomend to everyone with a TRX.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
desert_450r I don't think that strut would do any good, unless you were flat tracking your quad, it looks like it drops the rear while stiffining the heck out of the spring. It would not be my cup of tea.
Joe
 

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This sounds very intriging. The main thing I'm still not comfortable with on my 450R is the rear swapping, it's going to catch me off guard one of these days.


I still want to play with the suspension settings further, but from what i hear, there is only so much swap that you can adjust out.

I have found that hard on the throttle the rear won't swap at all in the whoops (for me anyways), but then half way through the whoops section you are usually going WAY too fast, which isn't good either.

I eventually would like to go the Elka setup, but this might be a good alternative for this year, I'm kinda strapped for cash after this intial investment!

If anyone has tried the Elka, I'd love to hear about it. Do 18" rears seem to help swapping? Anybody else have some tips??

-RR
 

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Discussion Starter #7
From what I hear the elka setup is fantastic, but from what I am experiencing and from the look of the elka linkage, I don't think this setup is too far off from what the elka has to offer, and at only 1/4 the price.
Joe
 

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the only thing I am confused about, is how does raising the shock up in a straighter position make the quad sit lower? It should make it sit higher....if you set the shock on end standing up, its taller then it would be at an angle.....do you know what i'm saying :huh:
 

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Originally posted by TRX450rlude@May 11 2004, 11:53 AM
the only thing I am confused about, is how does raising the shock up in a straighter position make the quad sit lower? It should make it sit higher....if you set the shock on end standing up, its taller then it would be at an angle.....do you know what i'm saying :huh:
unless the linkage is lower at the bottom then the stock linkage, in that case the linkage would come in contact with the ground....I am confused..please explain...cause I like your idea...and I want to copy you...thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
unless the linkage is lower at the bottom then the stock linkage, in that case the linkage would come in contact with the ground....I am confused..please explain...cause I like your idea...and I want to copy you...thanks.[/b]
Ok, this isn't my idea, I can't take credit, that will all go to Lazarus Sommers for the setup. Yes, the likaged comes a little lower than the stock linkage, but only a tiny bit. You would really have to look at the stock linkage and the one by GT thunder to understand how it works, the shock mounting point on the linkage is forward and down a bit on the linkage, so that the shock sits more straight up and down, but at a lower point...kind of hard to visualize. Anyway the bike then sits a bit lower when all is said and done. I might not understand to total mechanics of it, but I do know it worked great for me. Email GT Thunder if you have any questions, i'm sure he will be able to help you. If you check out his webpage, It is quite similar to what the 400ex linkage is like. I will try to take some pics when I get a chance, but the bike is soo dirty from this weekend, that I may not get around to it till this weekend.
Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here this might give you guys a better idea. Here is apic of the stock linkage.
STOCK LINKAGE

notice, the middle hole is the bottom shock mounting point.



here is the 400ex GT Thunder linkage, which is similar to the new 450R link. Notice the angle and position of the second hole.

here is someone's pic of their elka shocks and new linkage
ELKA Linkage

Notice the middle hole again in comparison to the stock linkage.
 

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Originally posted by joe1l@May 11 2004, 02:04 PM
QUOTE
unless the linkage is lower at the bottom then the stock linkage, in that case the linkage would come in contact with the ground....I am confused..please explain...cause I like your idea...and I want to copy you...thanks.
Ok, this isn't my idea, I can't take credit, that will all go to Lazarus Sommers for the setup. Yes, the likaged comes a little lower than the stock linkage, but only a tiny bit. You would really have to look at the stock linkage and the one by GT thunder to understand how it works, the shock mounting point on the linkage is forward and down a bit on the linkage, so that the shock sits more straight up and down, but at a lower point...kind of hard to visualize. Anyway the bike then sits a bit lower when all is said and done. I might not understand to total mechanics of it, but I do know it worked great for me. Email GT Thunder if you have any questions, i'm sure he will be able to help you. If you check out his webpage, It is quite similar to what the 400ex linkage is like. I will try to take some pics when I get a chance, but the bike is soo dirty from this weekend, that I may not get around to it till this weekend.
Joe [/b][/quote]
well I think I understand how.....with the lower linkage and moving the shock forward and not backwords you would gain some clearance...the farther back the shock is, the shorther it has to be...so if you move the shock towards the front in would counter act the length of the shock....plus with the linkage being lower I can see how it lowered the quad...the fact that you have to cut the skid plate tells me the shock is lower.......that could be a problem for certain types of riding........I like it....I cant beileve Honda didnt fiqure this out on thier own....they have been testing this machine for years.....I want knew linkage too..... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
well I think I understand how.....with the lower linkage and moving the shock forward and not backwords you would gain some clearance...the farther back the shock is, the shorther it has to be...so if you move the shock towards the front in would counter act the length of the shock....plus with the linkage being lower I can see how it lowered the quad...the fact that you have to cut the skid plate tells me the shock is lower.......that could be a problem for certain types of riding........I like it....I cant beileve Honda didnt fiqure this out on thier own....they have been testing this machine for years.....I want knew linkage too..... [/b]
Well you won't have to cut your skid plate, if you get a PRM skid plate. The stock skid plate will need to be cut. The terain i ran this weekend was as rocky and rough as almost any terrain that i can imagine people riding on, and the i had no problem with clearance issues. If anything this hangs maybe 1/2 inch lower than the stock linkage, not enought to make any noticible differance.
Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok i took some pictures, please mind my dirty bike, but maybe you guys can see the difference in the rear.

Look at Rear


here is the new link.

GT Thunder Linkage

here is the shock, its hard to see, but the angle has changed over stock
Shock 1
Shock 2
 

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Lazarus's linkage does two things - it moves the travel around in the chassis, and increases the leverage ratio on the shock to improve travel.

From my experience, he knows what he is doing and his setups work well.

No - you can not get the same effect from a lowering linkage - an adjustable lowering linkage will dramatically change the leverage ratio on the shock as well as move the progressive portion of the suspension travel out of the range of the shock's useable travel - avoid unless you just need a quick solution to lower the quad.

Also avoid the lowering linkages for the front end - they decrease the leverage ratio against the shock and will make your front end stiff enough that it will not hook up in the corners like it should.

I'm also not impressed by what I've seen from the Elka linkage so far - in fact, to me it appears it will worsen problems in the rear.

I know, there are people on other websites giving it rave reviews, but knowing what I know & knowing that I've tried other products people have raved about in the past that didn't live up to expectations - I'd be very leery of their product.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
86atc25r

Hey I never got to chance to thank you for recomending me the GT Linkage!!! As you can see, it worked out great!!
Joe
 

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Does he set the shock up for MX too? If so, I might have to make a purchase.
 

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He can.

He has different setups for 20" cross country tires vs 18" MX tires. Give him a call and talk with him about your needs.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I ran this thing down in the sand this weekend, where it was whooped to hell, anyhow, the rear performed awesome!!!! This has been the best mod by far, that I have done to my bike!!!
 

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Walsh also has a trick settup as well, check it out, it's called the savior. http://www.wrcracing.com/shop/product_info...?products_id=67
I have never had a problem with my rear end bucking at all, butof course i am running a PEp ZPS rear end. My honda was the fastest bike through the 20 killer sand whoops at red bud last weekend. Well I'm out, time to go to jason luburg's personal track and train :D
 
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