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Discussion Starter #1
I was just wanting to see if anyone knew where to gusset the Rs frame for strength.....

i know some people have said if you just look at the frame you can figure it out but that doesnt tell me a darn thing......
If i just look at the frame i want to gusset everywehre there is a angle and it makes me want to box my frame and add 100lbs to the darn thing......

If anyone knows please tell me cause i am going to start cutting out the gussets and getting it ready for this winter.....

Ive got a whole bunch of rust on one of my lower motor mounts and the frame..... dont see a crack though just looks like a shiesty PC job.....

Thanks for the help

Killer Q
 

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I'm not real sure either killer. I know that Tim farr has yet to add any gussets to his frame.
 

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Tim Farr said that the 450R was strong enough for hard core racing and I don't really think anyone rides much harder than him! Maybe talk to Lone Star racing and they can give you some answer's!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well i might just PC the frame and be done with it cause the design of the frame is very good and it is very strong... i have had a few times where the frame would bend and it hasnt...... the only thing that was bothering me was the rust that is on the frame....?????
 

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Powder coating is a good way to go. As far as rust, it would take years to do any real damage though. And I mean years! :D
 

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Killer - walsh racing has a gusset kit that you'll want to do. it's only 100.00 and they strengthen the shock mounts. If you're going to go through the trouble of stripping the bike down for powercoat you might as well spend the hundo for the kit.




click here for webpage
 

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I would have to agree with desert_450r. Time and time again I've heard about the 450r's frame being very strong. Why by the cow when the milk is free. In another words, if there is no problem, then why fix it!
 

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For the average rider I would have to agree with you guys, but for an MX rider the kit looks attractive. The gussets are centered around strengthening the shock mounts and areas around the shocks. Repeated casings and huge bottom outs will weakin and eventually crack the bike. Naturally, this will take a while to have happen, but if he's got the bike stripped down and he's an avid MX, I'd say go for it. All the gusstes are tear dropped to dispearse the stress to avoid moving the problem along the frame, so he should have a problem cracking the bike in other areas.
 

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Originally posted by pbell75@Jun 22 2004, 05:39 PM
For the average rider I would have to agree with you guys, but for an MX rider the kit looks attractive.  The gussets are centered around strengthening the shock mounts and areas around the shocks.  Repeated casings and huge bottom outs will weakin and eventually crack the bike.  Naturally, this will take a while  to have happen, but if he's got the bike stripped down and he's an avid MX, I'd say go for it.  All the gusstes are tear dropped to dispearse the stress to avoid moving the problem along the frame, so he should have a problem cracking the bike in other areas.
But who is really going to abuse this quad more than Tim Farr? He is hitting the biggest jumps out there at top speed and if the stock frame is fine for him, I think it is fine for the rest of us out here!
 

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I think it's a matter of opinion! If you feel the bike needs it, then more power to ya. Do what you think is right. But, then again, Tim rides very hard. Time will tell. Maybe wait one season to see what happens with Farr's bike! B)
 

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Personally I don't believe the 450R really needs any gussetting.

This is coming from someone who probably has one of the most significantly gussetted 400EX's out there.

FWIW, I won't be doing any gusset work to my 450R after seeing the improvements Honda has made in this chassis vs anything else out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Everybody here has just said everything i agree with.... rather it be to gusset it or not... i agree with you all....

The only reason i wanted to fix something that wasnt broke was because if it does break or crack at a later time i will be out all the time and money when i could have just gusseted it in the first place..... Be a little angery as well.......

Also with Tim who would know if something would happen and Honda pays him to say the best things possible about the bike......

I Run XC so im not into the jumping and all that but it does come into play in some Courses..... but i will tell you if you clip a tree with one wheel it is about 10x worse than coming off a jump wrong ... it is like a head on colision that just wont quit........ i have broke ball joints after ball joints on my EX and i bent to the point of not able to fix 3 EX frames.........

This was the reasoning for the gussets.... fix it before it ever happens......

I do however think i will just PC it and be done with it....

Thank you PBell for finding that and that might still be in the running cause i dont plan on tearing it down until the winter........

Thank you Everyone....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by desert_450r@Jun 22 2004, 05:50 PM
Again to differentiate:

Tim Farr has a deep well to draw from and politics are at work here IMO ... If he and Honda can say he's not gusseted, that equates to better 450R impression on the public and better sales ...

Tim Farr may have a "ringer" bike that is factory built but built with "care" if you get what I mean ... A failure of a factory bike by Tim will for sure equate to some lost sales and bad publicity for Honda ...

Finally, Tim Farr may go through several frames if need be and if his sponsors see stress ... So, to gusset or not to gusset is based on your preference and I don't think the best way to look at it is Tim Farr's bike ...

I just don't hear anything out in the real world on the 450R frame yet to look at that part of the bike as a problem ...

This is all my perception and I'm trying to contribute to the discussion as once you weld, you can't un-weld soooo ... If I am off base in anything here, I'm sure the knowers will point it out ... With Tim Farr that is ...

P.S. --- Don't know if any of you have done this, but look at a showroom floor and compare the 450R frame size with the 400EX and other quads ... It's a big difference ... And really too, I don't care what or how it's made, you abuse a quad long and hard enough it's going to fail ... Depends on how you ride as most have said here ...  :huh:

KillerQuad, if you do this project, let us know how it goes ... I would like to know if the rust is a concern when you strip the frame down ...

~
While i was typeing the other one this came up.....

And i agree with all that you said... just as i said in my last post..... the frame is much diff. and that is the very first thing i said to my friends when i saw my 450 come off the truck... "Good Lord, Look at the size of the damn frame Tubes" << pretty much exactlly what i said, but with a few more words added....

I just like the idea of "Better to have it and not use it, then need it and not have it"

If i do use the frame gussets i will let you all know but like i said it will be a little while....






PS the gusset kit is $200....
 

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you may be right about tim far riding harder than all of us but he lands the jumps smothly and has better shocks and differnt a-arms as well that helps smoth out the roughness. i race the woods and the gusset kit was help for me. we may not ride harder than tim but we tend to be harder on the chassis than him. here is why i think this and it may doesnt apply to all of us. do you always land the quad on the down side of a jump if not this is harder on the frame.do you get through the woops as smooth as the pros if not still harder on the frame then they are.
 

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Originally posted by midsouthrider@Aug 15 2004, 10:58 PM
you may be right about tim far riding harder than all of us but he lands the jumps smothly and has better shocks and differnt a-arms as well that helps smoth out the roughness. i race the woods and the gusset kit was help for me. we may not ride harder than tim but we tend to be harder on the chassis than him. here is why i think this and it may doesnt apply to all of us. do you always land the quad on the down side of a jump if not this is harder on the frame.do you get through the woops as smooth as the pros if not still harder on the frame then they are.
i totally agree with you. if someone wants to gusset their frames go ahead but if u dont think u need it then dont get it
 

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After reading some of the posts and witnessing our own issues with the 450r frame, it sgould be gusseted. We race our 450r in the Best in the Desert series and are 3 for 3 since we aquired the 450r in cracking the frame. Cracked it in the Vegas to Reno, Las Vegas 200 and the Henderson 300. I dont classify us in the same league as Tim Farr at all. However, we do put the bike through its paces. We destroyed the subframe and have cracked the main frame in the steering area and towards the rear top frame rail. Its all from frame flex! We have used a stock motor for the V to R and LV200. At Hendersons we had the HRC kit. Eric weighs 200lbs and I weigh 155. I feel this quads frame, for racing purposes, should be gusseted. I have some pics of the carnage if you guys wanna see it. We are going to gusset ours. I am not 100 percent sure but Doug Eichner and Farr probably change frames from time to time during the season.
 

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Yes, please post the pics that you have of the breakage. I've witnessed the top frame rail break, but I've never seen it break around the stem area. I think we can all learn from seeing your carnage. :blush:
 

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Ok, lemme upload them and Ill post. just got new ones. This is the steering stem area. Cracked on both sides.
[attachment=1260:attachment]
 

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[attachment=1262:attachment]
Before the repair.
 

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As an Aerospace Engineer I can tell you that aluminum corrosion is not always a slow process. Aluminum can indeed corrode quickly and when combined with outside stresses can cause massive stress cracking. If you ride salt flats or in the winter it could be worse. The only way to tell how far corrosion has gone is to remove it, but dismissing it as "surface" is a bad idea...unless you never jump your bike.
Oh and Tim Farr most definately does not ride a "stock" frame, it is probably buit lighter and he probably goes through ten frames in a single season, heck pro mountain bikers get this privledge and the business is a lot smaller than the ATV business. The fact that some think Tim Farr has "one" bike that he rides is kind of silly. :glare:
 
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