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Discussion Starter #1
Well I put on the 97mm Cylinder works cylinder and the Venom 12.25:1 piston. Ecerything seemed to go together well, she fired up good and idles ok but when I give her a little gas I am hearing a ticking or tapping sound. :thumbdown:
I did not let it run long.
Can anyone give me a clue as to what this maybe?
 

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Oregon Coast Powersports
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check valve lash. are you sure cam timing is correct? i would verify that it is. I would hate for you to have piston to valve clearance issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
check valve lash. are you sure cam timing is correct? i would verify that it is. I would hate for you to have piston to valve clearance issues.[/b]

How do I check valve lash? I was wondering about valve to piston clearance? How do you adjust for it?

I did just double check the timing it looks correct. I also checked the valve clearance at the cam. The intake side seems a lttle tight, would that have changed at all from before I put the piston and cylinder on? Exhaust side seems right on. It was running very well before I did the build, I just wanted a little more.
 

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Oregon Coast Powersports
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valve lash and valve clearance mean the same. if you didnt change cams or any valve train components then the lash shouldnt have changed.

the piston to valve clearance is usually checked before final assembly.

the common practice is to use clay on the valve reliefs of the piston and turn the engine over a couple of times with the head and cam installed. then you measure the thickness of the clay with the depth probe on a caliper.

It can/will change with different pistons and cylinders. cylinder height and compression height of the piston can be different. also compressed thickness of the head and base gasket can be different and change the p to v clearance.

unless you are running a large cam ie: mysto, x1, x3 or the like you are going to be fine.
 

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This may seem stupid, but........................

When you installed the piston, did you put the small reliefs forward and the large reliefs to the back?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This may seem stupid, but........................

When you installed the piston, did you put the small reliefs forward and the large reliefs to the back?[/b]

That's a good thought but yes I did. Large reliefs on the intake side.

I'm really hoping/thinking the intake valves are just tight. :sweatingbullets: I'm thinking maybe they were a little tight before and now, with the higher compression piston, they are tapping the piston?
I had to stop working on it earlier this evening. I will try adjusting the valves in the morning and let you guys know.

Thanks for all the inputs.
 

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This may seem stupid, but........................

When you installed the piston, did you put the small reliefs forward and the large reliefs to the back?[/b]

That's a good thought but yes I did. Large reliefs on the intake side.

I'm really hoping/thinking the intake valves are just tight. :sweatingbullets: I'm thinking maybe they were a little tight before and now, with the higher compression piston, they are tapping the piston?
I had to stop working on it earlier this evening. I will try adjusting the valves in the morning and let you guys know.

Thanks for all the inputs.
[/b]
You didn't use a standard head gasket did you?
 

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You didn't use a standard head gasket did you?
[/quote]

What cam are you using some cams are noisy the Stg 2 Hot Cam I have noticed is really noisy I checked clearences several times running the Stg. 2 and came to the conclusion it was just a noisy cam. I highly doubt your valves are hitting the piston with that set-up as long as it is timed properly and you valve clearances are close. You may want to check the timing on the flywheel just to verify it is correct.
 

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If you used a stock bore head gasket, the tapping you hear is most likely the piston hitting the head gasket. You can use a stock base gasket but not a stock head gasket.
 

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Oregon Coast Powersports
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higher compression pistons typically have deeper valve reliefs since they are typically used in conjunction with larger cams.

the dome may stick off the top of the piston more, but the valve relief is deeper and still parallel to the valve face or perpendicular to the valve angle.

if any clearance is going to tighten up in your case it will be piston to head clearance or (quench).

i have heard noisy stII cams. that wouldnt explain why you percieve it to be louder now than when it was stock bore.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you used a stock bore head gasket, the tapping you hear is most likely the piston hitting the head gasket. You can use a stock base gasket but not a stock head gasket.[/b]
I used the gasket Woodward sent me with the cylinder and piston.

I reshimmed the valves properly and the decompression gap. That all seems spot on now.
The rocker arm seems to have play in it at TDC. Is this normal??? Is this where my noise could be coming from???
I can push the rocker arm to the exhaust valve and back to the decompression screw. This makes the same sort of sound I'm hearing when it's running.

I'm thinking it's either that or the piston to gasket or piston to valve thing???

It starts, idles and revs good. It even sounds good and healthy other than the ticking? :dunno:
Iv'e let it idle for about 5 to 10 minutes now and it does not seem to get worse. I have been afraid to rev it too high.

Any other thoughts guys? I'm really getting antsy to jump on and ride her but I'm worried I will screw something up.
 

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Oregon Coast Powersports
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you should be able to move it a little bit. as in .010-.012 that is your valve lash. if you've got the correct valve lash, decomp clearance and are certain that your cam timing is correct then it's probably the cam. they do make a little noise. its those clearances opening up and closing at running speed. they can make more noise than you would think.

it sounds like you have covered your bases. it starts fine, revs fine, isnt getting louder. i would ride it.

maybe your a bit nervous and its no different than it was?? you didnt forget the timing chain guides or to release the tensioner properly did you. <--- no offense. just want to make sure we cover everything so all goes well on your 1st ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
you should be able to move it a little bit. as in .010-.012 that is your valve lash. if you've got the correct valve lash, decomp clearance and are certain that your cam timing is correct then it's probably the cam. they do make a little noise. its those clearances opening up and closing at running speed. they can make more noise than you would think.

it sounds like you have covered your bases. it starts fine, revs fine, isnt getting louder. i would ride it.

maybe your a bit nervous and its no different than it was?? you didnt forget the timing chain guides or to release the tensioner properly did you. <--- no offense. just want to make sure we cover everything so all goes well on your 1st ride.[/b]
Thanks bonestockr, don't hesitate to ask any questions, as I am new to this and could easily have made a beginner mistack but I did not forget the tensioner and I'm pretty confident all guilds are correct.

I've had the cam in for 2 years and I know that it is load, I'm just hearing a ticking that I did not hear before the new piston. And yes you are correct I am a bit nervous.

I'm really worried it's piston to valve clearance but should I have had to worry about that goig high compression? I would have thought they would have sent thicker gaskets or have warned me that that could be a potential problem?

Should that have been a potential problem???
 

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the only way you are going to have piston to valve clearance issues with that cam is if you have the cam timing wrong.

i have a megacycle x1 with about .040 more lift and a bunch more duration and i have plenty of clearance.

imagine the venom with no dome.

if you were to look at the new piston compared to the stock piston you will notice that the valve reliefs in the stocker are much shallower than the venom.

the dome continues above the top of the piston but the pocket is still on the same plain.

the venoms have extra deep valve reliefs and the stage 2 cam is mixxers favorite so we know that they will work together.

if you are still concerned that it is p to v interference, then you should take it apart and check it out.

like i said though, the only way that is the case is if you have the cam timing off.
 

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fvm,

as long as the punch mark on the gear is lined up with the index mark on the case and your cam sprocket is lined up with the index mark on the tower with the lobes pointing up and back with the tensioner installed the cam timing is good. without degreeing the cam in thats all you do.

i would spin the engine over a few times by hand and make sure all the corresponding marks line up properly.

if they do. your good there.

another thing that just came to mind. are you sure you dont have a slight exhaust leak at the head??
 

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Discussion Starter #16
fvm,

as long as the punch mark on the gear is lined up with the index mark on the case and your cam sprocket is lined up with the index mark on the tower with the lobes pointing up and back with the tensioner installed the cam timing is good. without degreeing the cam in thats all you do.

i would spin the engine over a few times by hand and make sure all the corresponding marks line up properly.

if they do. your good there.

another thing that just came to mind. are you sure you dont have a slight exhaust leak at the head??[/b]

Well like you said I think I have checked all the bases and maybe I'm just a bit paranoid.
So it's back together, plastic and all and I'm going for a short ride. I let you know what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, rode it carefully for about 10 minutes let it cool for about 30 then rode it again for about 10 minutes. Shut it off kicked her over, she fired right up, shut it down. The ticking seems quiter now but still there. She seems to be running strong, still a bit paranoid to get to crazy, plus I need to get out of the yard and off the street.
Have plans for tomorrow but I'm off work Monday so the plan is to take her and open her up. :rock: I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks guys for all the great advice and things to check for. :thumbsup:
 

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I am going to guess and say that everything is fine. Compared to your stock piston, the smallr lighter ones will tend to be a little bit louder. Especially if the piston to cyl wall is not as tight as stock.
 

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any chance you can get a video of the ticking at idle? could help pinpoint it, you definately dont wanna be riding it if your valves are hitting the piston.
 

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I am going to guess and say that everything is fine. Compared to your stock piston, the smallr lighter ones will tend to be a little bit louder. Especially if the piston to cyl wall is not as tight as stock.[/b]



^ Exactly ^.....

going from that relatively heavy stock 05 piston....to a much lighter/slipper skirt style piston..... will make not only a huge difference in power...but also in the noise department....... its called Piston Slap.... and under normal operating temps.....you wont notice it too much.....but when she first starts up she can be rather loud...

trust me....if you were to hear my bike when she starts up....you would swear up/down she is gonna blow.........(and she probably is about ready to...lol)...... not only am I running a slipper skirt piston, with very high comp.....but im also running a very loose bore due to the cast iron sleeve.....so she knocks like crazy...... but shoot a little NOS in her and she seals right up......lol


enjoy your ride.....
 
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