Honda TRX 450R banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
It seems that every time the suspension bottoms out, the frame scrapes hard. I tried stiffening the compression, and it seemed to help, but it still happens whenever i land hard off a jump. (I know, learn to jump better right!?!) I am by no means hitting huge jumps, 60' is the biggest I've hit so far, and I land most of them pretty smooth, but it still happens.

Now to me, the frame bottoming out under hard compression would lead me to believe that the shocks or shock mounts are set up wrong. maybe shock too short or mount too low? Am I totally off base here? Will raising the ride height help? The shocks a GTT revalves, JD arms. The shocks feel good, and the quad jumps great, I just hate the sound of the frame scraping.

thanks for the help!
Zach
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,095 Posts
got a few questions.........

is the arms regular travel or long travel?
were the shocks valved for regular travel arms because those gtt revalves are
for regular travel only.

and do you have a balanced ride height?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
the shocks are valved for std travel +2 arms. I listed the JDs (they are std travel +2) on the order sheet. They were set up for a 210 lb rider, I'm now about 215 w/ gear. On the order sheet I listed dunes as my riding type, at the time I had never even been on a track. And the tire size I listed was my dune setup- 21x7x10 front, 20x10x10 rear. Even with me 22" stock fronts, the frame will still scrape.

I left the rear ride height where it was when i got it back from GTT, 2 turn on the preload. I set the front 3/4 - 1" higher than the rear. That's just what I had read was a good starting point. Raising the front won't keep it form bottoming like that will it?

-Zach
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,595 Posts
i think if you were gonna be hitting some 60' jumps your builder should of been aware of that.

dune settup is a much softer.
 

·
450R Rider
Joined
·
1,148 Posts
Tell ya the truth I dont think it matters how you had them setup every set of GTThunders I have ridden bottom out. They are fine for trail riding, dunes and XC racing but MX is a different story all together, LT is the only way to go if you are serious about MX ask anyone who rides.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,595 Posts
Tell ya the truth I dont think it matters how you had them setup every set of GTThunders I have ridden bottom out. They are fine for trail riding, dunes and XC racing but MX is a different story all together, LT is the only way to go if you are serious about MX ask anyone who rides.[/b]

must be the extra lenght that helps absorb the impact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,022 Posts
i think its a mixture of things, usualyl if i bottom out my frame i will just try and lean back a little more and stiffer the comp on the rear shock and that usualyl solves my problem, usually if i land nose first i bottom out the frame but typically the frame will hit the ground before the shocks are completely bottomed out from my experience

probably the valving is to soft along with the springs, MX requires stiffer springs and harder shocks for the impacts, MX shocks will also rebound faster
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
607 Posts
you should actually bottom out. Just think if your shocks were set up to handle a 60' flat landing how would they land a 15' jump. All i am saying is it is better to bottom out once a lap and save your energy then have them never bottom out and really rough every wear else around the track
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the help everyone.
When I sent the shocks off the GTT, I had never been on a track. I had them set up for dunes riding because that's where I intended to spend most of my time. Now I look for all the jumps I can find.

So, for someone looking to get some air, what would you guys recommend I do...

send the stockers back to GTT for an mx valving (probably not the best for mx style riding?)
or
by a new set of shocks. I already got a quote on some Motowoz and Fox Floats.

I don't really want to have to buy LT arms, as I just bought some std travel from JD like 6 months ago. I would think that std travel Motowoz would be fine for someone who doesn't intend to race. my friends like to hit the track, but the atv race scene around here is almost non existent. We mostly go out to hit the jumps and mess around.

so my question boiles down to; is it worth the time to buy std travel Motowoz?

BTW. It's not lke I bottom out every once in a while, every jump I hit at the track, no matter how clean the landing, it still drags the frame. I have the front adjusters set all the way stiff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,022 Posts
Thanks for the help everyone.
When I sent the shocks off the GTT, I had never been on a track. I had them set up for dunes riding because that's where I intended to spend most of my time. Now I look for all the jumps I can find.

So, for someone looking to get some air, what would you guys recommend I do...

send the stockers back to GTT for an mx valving (probably not the best for mx style riding?)
or
by a new set of shocks. I already got a quote on some Motowoz and Fox Floats.

I don't really want to have to buy LT arms, as I just bought some std travel from JD like 6 months ago. I would think that std travel Motowoz would be fine for someone who doesn't intend to race. my friends like to hit the track, but the atv race scene around here is almost non existent. We mostly go out to hit the jumps and mess around.

so my question boiles down to; is it worth the time to buy std travel Motowoz?

BTW. It's not lke I bottom out every once in a while, every jump I hit at the track, no matter how clean the landing, it still drags the frame. I have the front adjusters set all the way stiff.[/b]
havent realyl heard much on the motowoz standard travels but there LT seem to be THE SHIIT!! so i can only imagine the standard travels are almost as good

the thing about MX is the LT helps alot because the wheel might not actualyl have more travel then standard travel BUTTT the shocks is MUCH longer and has a much longer stroke so it can still be really soft when raceing around the track but when you jump your wheels fall down and your shock has all that stroke to help with the bottoming on the landing

hope this helps but if your not serious about raceing a very good setup standard travel setup will work just fine IMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
I would keep what you have now and just get the shocks rebuilt. You can figure out if the shocks are built correctly or not right in your garage. Take the springs off one of the front shocks and let it sag until it bottoms out. You should be able to fit a 2x4 under your frame with the front shocks completely bottomed out on a nice level surface (garage floor). If your frame hits and your shocks are not bottomed, your shocks are built incorrectly.

I rode a lot of MX on my GT Thunder rebuilds, then had C&D redo them for me. I like them a lot. Dont let the LT bandwagon tell you they wont work for MX. The only real advantage to LT over ST is the LT is easier for fine tuning. 90% of the people with LT dont know how to adjust a shock anyways so it's wasted money. You dont necessarily gain any actual wheel travel by going to a LT setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
I would keep what you have now and just get the shocks rebuilt. You can figure out if the shocks are built correctly or not right in your garage. Take the springs off one of the front shocks and let it sag until it bottoms out. You should be able to fit a 2x4 under your frame with the front shocks completely bottomed out on a nice level surface (garage floor). If your frame hits and your shocks are not bottomed, your shocks are built incorrectly.

I rode a lot of MX on my GT Thunder rebuilds, then had C&D redo them for me. I like them a lot. Dont let the LT bandwagon tell you they wont work for MX. The only real advantage to LT over ST is the LT is easier for fine tuning. 90% of the people with LT dont know how to adjust a shock anyways so it's wasted money. You dont necessarily gain any actual wheel travel by going to a LT setup.[/b]
Try adjusting your rebound and see how that impacts your landings. You will want to turn the rebound towards "H".

Measure under your footpeg sitting on your quad wearing full gear. Your ride height should be about 7.5". Then measure the front 16" forward of this. It should be about 8". You can go to 8 and 8.5" too you will lose some speed in your turns.

If your springs are too soft for your weight and riding style then there is only so much you can do with the rebound and compression settings. If your compression isn't slowing things down for you then I am guessing your rebound is way too soft (fast)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Well I may try taking the springs off and seeing how low the quad sits at full compression. next step might be to try new springs. is there a general idea what the sag should be? Will measuring the sag give me an idea if the springs are too soft?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
546 Posts
Right off GTT latest set up sheet. I set mine up this way plus called Laz for help The dude know's his shock's.


Shock Setup

Note: The information below will only work with suspension that has been setup by G T Thunder and has the correct extended shock length with the correct wheel travel.

Thank you for choosing GT Thunder for your shock work. Please take the time to read through this shock setup sheet and follow instructions to ensure the best possible performance.

1. Carefully install your suspension components.

2. Measure your rear race sag.

3. Measure your race ride height in the rear.

4. Set your race ride height in the front.

5. Verify that you have the correct crossover gap in the front.

6. Measure your front main spring length at race ride height.



1. Carefully install your suspension components.



Please have a qualified and knowledgeable technician install your components checking for all the correct clearances and that all your suspension components are moving freely.



2. Measure your race sag.



Place your quad on a stand that is tall enough so that your wheels are suspended off the ground and the rear suspension is fully extended. Now make a mark on the subframe or other suitable place straight up from the axle. Measure from the axle up to the mark. Next set the quad on the ground and stand on the foot pegs and have someone measure from the axle to the mark again. The difference in the 2 measurements is your race sag. We run 4-5 inches depending on the application and the rider. You can make small adjustments to this by turning your preload nut 2-3 turns and you can make large adjustments by install stiffer or softer springs.

Recommended race sag: Race Sag 4-5”

4” For Very Aggressive Rider

4.5” For Intermediate and Correct Riders

5” For the Gentle Riders

A Stiffer Spring will give you less race sag and more bottoming resistance

A Softer Spring will give you more race sag and less bottoming resistance



3. Measure your race ride height in the rear.



Make sure your quad is race ready with tire pressures set and anything else that will affect the height. Then stand on the foot pegs and have someone measure to the bottom of the frame in the foot peg area.



4. Set your race ride height in the front.



Now measure your front ride height 22 inches forward of the foot peg area and adjust the front ride height up and down by adjusting the preload on the front shocks till the front is 0 - 3/4 inch higher in the front for most applications. Feel free to contact us for exact settings for your quad.



5. Verify that you have the correct crossover gap in the front.



Your crossover gap is the distance between the crossover and what ever it contacts as you move further down in the travel. The gap needs to be checked at race ride height. It needs to be 3/16 - ½ inch. The smaller the gap the stiffer the ride and the better the cornering. The larger the gap the plusher the ride. The crossover gap can be adjusted by adding or changing crossover spacers.



6. Measure your front main spring length at race ride height.



Measure the front main spring length at race ride height. On a dual spring setup – 7 – 7 1/8 inches is a good balance of plush ride and good cornering. If the length is less you will need to install stiffer front springs. If it is longer then that you need to install softer front springs.

Notes:

1. Feel free to adjust the compression adjusters to your liking but do not run them fully closed as it will cause a harsh sensation and can damage chassis components due to pressure spikes.

2. We set your rebound for you –PLEASE do not change it .

3. Shock covers on the front shocks are needed to avoid main seal damage, shaft damage, and crossover sticking.

4. If you have any questions, need any assistance, or want changes made to your shocks – I need all the measurements from steps 1-6.



IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, NEED ANY ASSISTANCE, OR WANT CHANGES MADE TO YOUR SHOCKS – I NEED ALL THE MEASUREMENTS FROM STEPS 1-6.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
wow, must have been a while since I was on their website. I will follow that advice and see where it gets me.

thanks for the pointers everyone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,022 Posts
wow, must have been a while since I was on their website. I will follow that advice and see where it gets me.

thanks for the pointers everyone.[/b]

why? what about the motowoz? i wouldnt worry about ti until ya got that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
well, I still have a couple weeks untill I get the Motowoz, and I would like to spend some more time fine tuning this setup, if only to get some more experience dialing in a suspension. I probably didn't give the GTT setup a fair shot at working, but I happened across some money and f'ed up an a-arm in the same weekend and said what the hell.

Plus, I'm not gonna stop riding and wait for the new shocks!
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top