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Discussion Starter #1
Had my first real dune trip (to Glamis in CA) this weekend, after installing the HRC kit. While the 450R was obviously a big step over the 400EX, it was a little disappointing to me, probably because my last quad was a significantly modified Banshee.

My friend has a piped, jetted, ported Banshee. He spanked me at the hill, easily. He has a 250R also, which he loves. I had him try out my 450R, and asked him what he thought of it. His answer was "do you want to know the truth?" Although he's a two-stroke fan, he recently tried out a Raptor for the first time. It was piped and jetted, and (so he says) was faster than my 450R. This guy is not a Yamaha partisan, either. If he could have said anything to make me feel better instead of worse, he would have.

Another friend has basically stock 400EX, and he tried out my 450R. After the ride, he said "give me that engine in my chassis." He hated the way the 450R steers, or perhaps doesn't steer is more accurate. I have ITP Sand Stars all around, and the fronts just don't seem to bite. Numerous times I had to bail out of hills I was traversing, because I couldn't get the steering to turn uphill. I can't turn nearly as tight as I could on the Banshee, either.

To add insult to injury, I rolled the 450R, not once but twice. The first time, I was heading down a hill that caught me off guard. I have no idea what happened. Right front wheel reached the bottom first, and then my face was in the sand with the quad rolling over me. The only thing I can figure is it was a combination of my being out of practice (been riding a buggy for 2 years), and the possibility that I hit the rear brake by accident.

The second roll was even more bizarre. I was trying to do a quick turn to change direction and follow a friend, and next thing I knew, the 450R was on its side, and I was on the sand! Fortunately I had my helmet camera running, so at least it was good for a laugh! I'll post the video eventually.

I was bummed.

On the positive side, the 450R soaked up the whoops like a pro. It wheelies like a champ, if you like that kind of thing, and it feels great in the air and landing jumps.

So, I'm a little sore and a little confused, too. Hondas are known for being the best handling quads, but I don't have warm and a fuzzy feeling about the handling or the engine right now.

So, I'm not sure where to go from here. I need some more ponies to make the 450R feel right, but I don't want to lose all my low end, either. And I need to make it a little less tippy. Maybe a wider axle? I don't want to sink big bucks into new A-arms, especially if that means new shocks also. As for the steering, I guess I can live with it. I suppose it comes with the territory when you're dealing with a light quad and lots of torque... :(
 

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I would get a pipe to help the power...also the stock shocks basically need dome work, whether re-valve or new shocks all together.
 

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Don't go out and waste you money on new shocks, just adjust the ones you have and they'll be fine. Also, your buddies piped and jetted raptor will not be able to beat you in anything less than a 350ft drag, I haven't been beaten by a raptor yet.
 

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Originally posted by Poiks@May 16 2004, 08:04 PM
Had my first real dune trip (to Glamis in CA) this weekend, after installing the HRC kit. While the 450R was obviously a big step over the 400EX, it was a little disappointing to me, probably because my last quad was a significantly modified Banshee.

My friend has a piped, jetted, ported Banshee. He spanked me at the hill, easily. He has a 250R also, which he loves. I had him try out my 450R, and asked him what he thought of it. His answer was "do you want to know the truth?" Although he's a two-stroke fan, he recently tried out a Raptor for the first time. It was piped and jetted, and (so he says) was faster than my 450R. This guy is not a Yamaha partisan, either. If he could have said anything to make me feel better instead of worse, he would have.

Another friend has basically stock 400EX, and he tried out my 450R. After the ride, he said "give me that engine in my chassis." He hated the way the 450R steers, or perhaps doesn't steer is more accurate. I have ITP Sand Stars all around, and the fronts just don't seem to bite. Numerous times I had to bail out of hills I was traversing, because I couldn't get the steering to turn uphill. I can't turn nearly as tight as I could on the Banshee, either.

To add insult to injury, I rolled the 450R, not once but twice. The first time, I was heading down a hill that caught me off guard. I have no idea what happened. Right front wheel reached the bottom first, and then my face was in the sand with the quad rolling over me. The only thing I can figure is it was a combination of my being out of practice (been riding a buggy for 2 years), and the possibility that I hit the rear brake by accident.

The second roll was even more bizarre. I was trying to do a quick turn to change direction and follow a friend, and next thing I knew, the 450R was on its side, and I was on the sand! Fortunately I had my helmet camera running, so at least it was good for a laugh! I'll post the video eventually.

I was bummed.

On the positive side, the 450R soaked up the whoops like a pro. It wheelies like a champ, if you like that kind of thing, and it feels great in the air and landing jumps.

So, I'm a little sore and a little confused, too. Hondas are known for being the best handling quads, but I don't have warm and a fuzzy feeling about the handling or the engine right now.

So, I'm not sure where to go from here. I need some more ponies to make the 450R feel right, but I don't want to lose all my low end, either. And I need to make it a little less tippy. Maybe a wider axle? I don't want to sink big bucks into new A-arms, especially if that means new shocks also. As for the steering, I guess I can live with it. I suppose it comes with the territory when you're dealing with a light quad and lots of torque... :(
there must be something wrong with your R....there's not a Raptor out there that will beat me...I have time slips to prove it......After reading that I have to say Sorry, but I think you guys are nuts....or they did not do your bike right...I would check the timing, if you got beat by that Banshee then I bet you have your timing chain a tooth off.....A banshee has to have alot of work to beat mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by TRX450rlude@May 17 2004, 08:23 AM
...I would check the timing, if you got beat by that Banshee then I bet you have your timing chain a tooth off.....
Thanks for the advice. Two questions:
1) Any idea how to check the timing?
2) What would the symptoms be of having the timing chain off by a tooth? The quad starts and runs great...it just doesn't perform quite as well as I'd like it to.
 

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Originally posted by Poiks+May 17 2004, 10:25 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TRX450rlude
@May 17 2004, 08:23 AM
...I would check the timing, if you got beat by that Banshee then I bet you have your timing chain a tooth off.....
Thanks for the advice. Two questions:
1) Any idea how to check the timing?
2) What would the symptoms be of having the timing chain off by a tooth? The quad starts and runs great...it just doesn't perform quite as well as I'd like it to. [/b]
Im not sure how to check the timing...I would refer to the service manual...it should tell you how.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by TRX450rlude@May 17 2004, 10:30 AM
Im not sure how to check the timing...I would refer to the service manual...it should tell you how.
I have it...i'll check tonight. I would love to think that it's something that simple, but since it's running normally I'd say it's probably not. :(
 

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On the suspension side of things, the new Sand Addiction magazine has an article on the 450R.

They give shock setting recommendations for dune riders. Unfortunately, the rebound settings are garbled.

Here's what they say:

Stock front:
Compression - 1 5/8 turns out
Rebound - 1 7/8 turns out

Stock rear:
Compression: 28 clicks out
Rebound: 1 7/8 turns out


New Front settings:
Compression - 3 turns out
Rebound - fi turns out

New rear settings:
Compression: 32clicks out
Rebound: fi turns out

What is "fi"????
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by CrowleyOffroad@May 17 2004, 08:15 AM
New Front settings:
Compression - 3 turns out
Rebound - fi turns out

New rear settings:
Compression: 32clicks out
Rebound: fi turns out

What is "fi"????
Maybe it's written in hex? :lol:

I e-mailed them; lets see what they say.
 

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Originally posted by Poiks+May 17 2004, 12:04 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-CrowleyOffroad
@May 17 2004, 08:15 AM
New Front settings:
Compression - 3 turns out
Rebound - fi turns out

New rear settings:
Compression: 32clicks out
Rebound: fi turns out

What is "fi"????
Maybe it's written in hex? :lol:

I e-mailed them; lets see what they say. [/b]
except there is no "i" in hex.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by TRX450rlude@May 17 2004, 09:37 AM
except there is no "i" in hex.
Details, details.


Jon, which issue of SA is it? I'll have to get my hands on a copy. Is it a comprehensive piece?
 

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Originally posted by Poiks@May 17 2004, 01:14 PM
Jon, which issue of SA is it? I'll have to get my hands on a copy. Is it a comprehensive piece?
April/May 2004 Sand Addiction

The suspension piece is nice assuming we can figure out what "fi" means.

But the reast of the article is mostly "here's what we think of it". Good if you were thinking about buying one. Not as interesting if you already have one...

Jon
 

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poiks, when is the next time your going out i would like to see the difference between an hrc bike and a piped bike, i have the hrc kit but im not sure if i should install it or wait for the duncan cam.
 

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I have a 1\8 mile time slip from the drag races. I raced a HRC equipped 450r VS my Sparks equipped 450r....the HRC is all stock with HRC kit. Mine is sparks racing cam, jet kit, and air filter, with stock exhaust and HRC end cap...You guys have to remember we were racing on concrete where there was nothing but hot rubber underneith us, so take offs where a Biaaatch......keeping the front end down was impossible...but here are the times.

HRC Sparks
R\T .193 .271
60' 2.190 2.076
330' 6.278 6.027
1\8 9.991 9.478

And the guy on the HRC bike is a better drag racer then me....I was not doing well at all, but as you can see above, his reaction time was way better then mine. that means he left the line before I did. but if you look at the 60' mark I was already ahead and pulling hard on him. We raced several times and I have alot more time slips. this one shows our best and closest race.....our times would have been closer to 8 on a different track...this thing was so sticky you could not slide your foot accross the ground....by the way, I was on stock tires, and he is on Holeshots....BTW, I beat him everytime, and I beat my friend with a 04 HMF, Jetted, and piped Raptor...every time...actually I never lost one race, and my times where always way better then thiers...even when I messed up badly, I would still win....I could let them take off first and still win....I am impressed with the Spark set up....I cant wait to change my exhaust.
 

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Originally posted by desert_450r+May 17 2004, 02:24 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TRX450rlude
@May 17 2004, 12:15 PM
I have a 1\8 mile time slip from the drag races. I raced a HRC equipped 450r VS my Sparks equipped 450r....the HRC is all stock with HRC kit. Mine is sparks racing cam, jet kit, and air filter, with stock exhaust and HRC end cap...You guys have to remember we were racing on concrete where there was nothing but hot rubber underneith us, so take offs where a Biaaatch......keeping the front end down was impossible...but here are the times.

HRC                                              Sparks
R\T .193                                          .271
60'    2.190                                        2.076
330'  6.278                                        6.027
1\8 9.991                                        9.478

And the guy on the HRC bike is a better drag racer then me....I was not doing well at all, but as you can see above, his reaction time was way better then mine. that means he left the line before I did. but if you look at the 60' mark I was already ahead and pulling hard on him. We raced several times and I have alot more time slips. this one shows our best and closest race.....our times would have been closer to 8 on a different track...this thing was so sticky you could not slide your foot accross the ground....by the way, I was on stock tires, and he is on Holeshots....BTW, I beat him everytime, and I beat my friend with a 04 HMF, Jetted, and piped Raptor...every time...actually I never lost one race, and my times where always way better then thiers...even when I messed up badly, I would still win....I could let them take off first and still win....I am impressed with the Spark set up....I cant wait to change my exhaust.
IMO ... This shows that with the right selection of parts, the HRC kit can be bested as I have found over and over on the net ...

IMO, it has been said that the right pipe and jetting w/ no lid will net more power than the HRC kit ... I believe it ...

The HRC kit is a good value rightly so ... But I don't think it can compare to careful SEPERATE cam, pipe, inletting and jetting selection ...

Now we have some slips to back this up with some valid testimony ...

~ [/b]
yes, I am going to post the actuall time slips for you guys, but Im at work rightnow and dont have a scanner here...I have to do it from home....so I should have them posted by tomorrow.
 

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I have a 1\8 mile time slip from the drag races. I raced a HRC equipped 450r VS my Sparks equipped 450r....the HRC is all stock with HRC kit. Mine is sparks racing cam, jet kit, and air filter, with stock exhaust and HRC end cap...You guys have to remember we were racing on concrete where there was nothing but hot rubber underneith us, so take offs where a Biaaatch......keeping the front end down was impossible...but here are the times.

HRC Sparks
R\T .193 .271
60' 2.190 2.076
330' 6.278 6.027
1\8 9.991 9.478

And the guy on the HRC bike is a better drag racer then me....I was not doing well at all, but as you can see above, his reaction time was way better then mine. that means he left the line before I did. but if you look at the 60' mark I was already ahead and pulling hard on him. We raced several times and I have alot more time slips. this one shows our best and closest race.....our times would have been closer to 8 on a different track...this thing was so sticky you could not slide your foot accross the ground....by the way, I was on stock tires, and he is on Holeshots....BTW, I beat him everytime, and I beat my friend with a 04 HMF, Jetted, and piped Raptor...every time...actually I never lost one race, and my times where always way better then thiers...even when I messed up badly, I would still win....I could let them take off first and still win....I am impressed with the Spark set up....I cant wait to change my exhaust.[/b]
Very nice to see that setup is working for you!!!
My Bike is setup exactly the same except I have an HMF exhaust instead of the stock exhuast!!
I raced a Raptor with a GYTR exhaust, pro-design intake and GYTR jet kit. I beat him all the time in the top. I had such a bad start at one point (was running 13/39 gearing) that I had to wait for my bike to stop wheelying, by that time he had 4 or 5 bike lengths on me, but by the time I was in 4th gear, I was passing him then I hit fifth, and took him by at least 5 bike lenghts. I raced him at one point, where I had a perfect start and I smoked him from beginning to end, I had a large lead on him that time. If I had my 14/39 gearing that I run now, I would have added at least 3 more bike lengths to my lead with out a doubt. I wiegh about 215, the raptor rider weighs about 185. Now If he had a full exhaust, I definately think we would had a better race. cRaptors can be very fast if setup right, so losing to one is not that big of a deal!.
Joe
 

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Originally posted by TRX450rlude@May 17 2004, 02:15 PM
I raced a HRC equipped 450r VS my Sparks equipped 450r....the HRC is all stock with HRC kit. Mine is sparks racing cam, jet kit, and air filter, with stock exhaust and HRC end cap...
What main are you running and whats your elevation. I have the same exact set-up and at 1000FT running sparks recommended jetting it seemed alittle rich(190main, clip in 3rd position and screw 4 turns out). I jumped down to the 185 and it ran alot better. Just wondering what you're running........
 
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