[motocrosser440ex]

i had my dad pick me up some oil,filter, crush washers for my 450 today since he was near the dealer. I told him what i wanted him to get which was my usual GN4 10W40 for my enginge, and the honda 80W in th red squirt bottle for the tranny. Well he goes to the dealer and give them the list and the parts guy says thats the wrong oil and give him honda HP4 10W-40 SJ sythedtic/petroleum blend without moly for my clutch side, and HP4M 10W-40 synthetic/petroleum belnd with moly for my engine side. This is coming from a parts guy who couldnt find the crush washer for the tranny drain bolt on the diagram, when i found it in about two minutes when i looked for it on service hondas site. can someone give me the low down on the two oils they told me to use and if its better than what i usually use? I dont really want to get myself into the semi synthetics and what not.

appreciate it guys.
matt

 

[McCune]

Next time tell the parts guy to sell you the parts you requested! He doesn't know anything! Run the 80/85 w red bottle !

 

[lumi]

well i guess he was trying to help you.

the HP tranny oil is great for the tranny side, but you def gotta step up your engine oil..

either HP4M with moly for the engine, or even better HP4S all synthetic. some good stuff right there. both are great, depends on what you like more, additive oils or synthetic.

 

[TRX450RACER174]

He's a frikin idiot no moly at all period in that motor, he was trying to sell HP4 cause its mo expensive he should just keep his mouth shut and give what is asked for.

 

[06erdj450]

That's funny how my dealer couldn't find the washer for the tranny drain bolt either.... I found it in 2 minutes also! LOL...


Anyway... I run the red bottle Honda oil in the tranny side.

 

[Venom501KingR]

That gut was right. I think everyone here owes that guy an apology.

All he was trying to do was sell you the right stuff....

 

[motocrosser440ex]

That gut was right. I think everyone here owes that guy an apology.

All he was trying to do was sell you the right stuff....[/b]

so whats the advantages to these oils. A lot of people seem to run the red bottle in the tranny. whats the Moly and semi synth advantages/problems. i want to change my oil before my open practice sat so thatll be tomorrow, and if i have to im going to run back up to the dealer and get my stuff and like 10-15 bucks back.

 

[Venom501KingR]

Moly ONLY in the crank/engine side.

Absolutely NO Moly in the clutch side.

The manual suggests I believe 10-40 as the clutch oil viscosity. In my last built motor I ran 0-30 I believe it was. Royal purple brand. I was also hunting for horsepower.

That red thicker stuff will work fine but that guy was not wrong.

 

[motocrosser440ex]

im not saying he was but i dont feel as though i am wrong in my preference either.

 

[Venom501KingR]

Well if you compare his advise and what you wanted to run to the service manual and someone had to be right, who do you think was "right" and "wrong"

Now if you believe as a customer, if you want something then he should just keep his mouth shut and sell you it, then he was dead wrong.

Mayby he was just trying to help..... especially if its cheaper, what does he gain from that?

All in all, the 80/90 will be fine.

 

[TRX450RACER174]

I feel that if you ask for something you should get what you ask for, the manual does call for different oil for the wet clutch but when you ask for something and then are contradicted thats kinda frustrating when the Red bottle is perfectly fine to run in that clutch and imo works better than the std oil anyways.

 

[Venom501KingR]

The one thing you will notice is that oils that are thicker make a vehicle harder to start especially in the winter. Another is the thick oil tends to "drag" a bit more and its harder to get into tighter tolerances.

 

[motocrosser440ex]

so should i run the oils they sold me then? and i probably have to rinse the old oils out ?

 

[lumi]

yup no moly in the engine side or the synthetic in there.
i have explained this many times but one more time

the HP4S which is the new all synthetic oil from honda will flow easier around the engine(10w30), and create some of the best protection you can get. because our engine is a twin sump(tranny oil seperate from the engine oil), taking advantage of that is what i would say 50% of most org member do.

the HP4M is with a additive called moly, very slippery and creates little friction reducing wear. along the lines of what the HP4S does but you can get HP4S in a 10w30 weight which can flow through the small oil holes on the engine easier during cold starts and such.

ok so, both these ENGINE oils are engine specific engine oil only. they are made for the parts of a engine and such. they are not made in mind for a tranny.

take for example a 400ex, it uses both the oil from the engine and the tranny into one system, mixed. so you need a oil like HP4 which contains properties for both a tranny and a engine.
the 450r uses two seperate sumps. so you want a tranny oil, like HP tranny oil, and a engine oil like HP4S opr HP4M

did i explain that right?


here is some more info from a honda maintenance pack they sent out a while back, explaining some of this and them recommending the HP4M, but this was before the HP4S came out.

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?sho...c=37188&hl=

 

[McCune]

That gut was right. I think everyone here owes that guy an apology.

All he was trying to do was sell you the right stuff....[/b]

This is my best internet apology.... SORRY...


I guess the red stuff is for the CR and 250rs only! To think I have put more than 20 cases of the wrong stuff in all my transmissions .. Shoot.

 

[GravelPit]

So, your saying I should not run the HP4S in my transmission side? my dealer didn't have the red bottle transmission oil, but he had the HP4S and HP4M, so I took 4 bottles of HP4S thinking I could run it in both sides... but it's not recommended in the tranny side?

 

[scrapper450r]

some of the posts have been confusing to me.

simply....... hp4m petroleum synthetic blend with moly. very good on engine side. honda full synthetic is better. but i have not been able to get at my local shop. moly will not hurt engine side. its a very good lubricant

gn4 is good oil. and like many i thought that it was good enough since i change oil too often. but after seeing the wear in the wrist pin journal when i changed pistons. i went to the hp4m.

tranny side. nothing with moly. period.

everyone has a preference. i use the red 90 weight like yourself. it is safe in a 450r tranny no matter what the bottle says about cr's and 250r's.

i think this way..... you use the same 90 weight in a chain saw for lubing the bar. it is thicker and clings to surfaces. it sticks on the clutches the same way. beneficial IMO.

in the engine....... clinging is not really what you want. you want the synthetic part because of its resistance to breaking down. the moly to adhere to the parts. it does'nt cling, it bonds. like a film on parts. if oil is clingy, it robs power. you only want as much as is necessary for the job. not sure how much it affects small engines as these, but in high hp auto motors excess oil on rotating parts is a big power robber.

 

[450RRR]

Well...lets see.... I dont use Honda engine oils......so I guess I cant help much...

but......I know a good tranny oil when I use it.... and I have not found a better working Tranny oil than Honda HP tranny fluid....

dont confuse Transmission rated viscosity with Engine rated viscosity....cuzz they are about DOUBLE.... 80w tranny viscosity is equal to 40wt engine viscosity......

one of the very best oils you can use in your ENGINE is Mobil-1 Turbo Diesel.... all the good stuff.... with none of it removed for EPA guidelines like you find in typical automotive oils......

Molybdenum additives are very beneficial, but are less of a 'lubricant' than they are a 'barrier' between two impacting surfaces....(kinda softens the blow)..... however, due to it's bonding quality, you do not want to use them with a wet clutch... it would be greatly beneficial to the tranny gears..but again... should never be used with wet clutches because it will bond with the discs and cause the clutch to slip......( but the gears would be well protected..LOL )


use whatever oil you like.....I prefer synthetics cuzz...well, for lack of a better word.... SLICKER... and therefore produce the most HP with least amount of resistance......but to each their own....and they certainly are not necessary if you change your oil on a regular basis......

but your tranny deserves HP Tranny fluid..... I dont care what the bottle says about it being used for TWO strokes.... a wet clutch tranny is a wet clutch tranny no matter how you slice it...and Honda HP Tranny fluid is the best.....(personal opinion based on WAY too many previous clutch issues)....


as for the guy trying to help out.... .well, thats a whole nutter story.... I wasnt there so I cant say what was said or why...... If your dad went in there and gave the salesman a list....and the salesman said....Nah, you dont want that stuff... here is what you really want and/or need.... then that would be kinda rude....... however, if your dad said "my son wanted me to buy this stuff for his bike...what do you think?'...and the guy offered something different based on the needs of your machine... well, that was just being a good salesman.... after all.... not everyone knows exactly what they want....or what they need like most of us on this forum......the salesman may have sold previous products to other customers who came back and 'biatched' because he did not give them the right stuff cuzz "he should have known better"...... trust me...for those of you in customer service or sales....you know what I am talking about...

bottom line....what he sold you will work just fine..... but if you want what you want....... so be it..... your choices were just fine as well......



again....jmho.....me~

 

[lumi]

NO HP4S or HP4M on the tranny side.

FWIW, i guess honda is a little behind, the reading on the HP tranny oil;red bottle; is a bit dated. they used it for there 2 stroke's since they didnt really use many twin sump off road ATV/bikes.
i guess this throws people off thinking omg its only for 2stroke, but it isnt since 2 strokes only have a tranny oil reservior, you can think of it as a twin sump like the 450r, tranny sealed and the engine takes pre-mix.

 

[cheapfast450r]

after reading all the hubub about the oil, i've been running Havoline 10w40 for 2 years in my 06 on both sides. change it every other ride and seems to be fine. trans shifts fine and no clutch slippage (just took cluch out for inspection ,it was fine 2yr old with lots of 2nd gear takeoffs...dragracin' ). so looks like i could get some free hp from an oil change. i think i will stay with the cheap stuff. work fine for me, but i'm not out desert racing either. like they say do what you want, run what you want.....

ya'll have fun chopping this up now. I don't want anybody to have a heart attack laughing too hard...but this is what I use it may not be what you think is right but to each his on.........lol....does anybody have a dyno sheet on different oils and how they help or add hp?