[joe1l]

Ok, I started Installing my new Sparks CAM today. I bought the honda service manual which is ok, and used it to guide me in my installation. Anyhow I read in the manual, that is said to use an oil that contained moly in it. I was at the auto parts store looking for an oil that this in it, and anyhow, I couldn't find one!! Anyhow the only oil I know that has this in it is, the Honda oil, is this the type of oil that is should use to coat the cam and parts.

Next. I checked my valve clearances before dissasembling the stock cam and wrote them down, (exhaust .28 +-.03) (intake .16 +-.03) Anyhow I noticed that on the left exhaust valve and intake, that valve clearance were on the tight side .25 and .14, while on the right side they were a little looser (.30 and .19). When i disassembled the everything, i made sure I labled 4 little plastic bags and put the shims into each one. Anyhow, I noticed that each shim was different, i.e. that left exhaust shim was different to the right exhaust shim, and the same with the intake shims. Is this normal?? Did honda design more clearance one side and less on the other side? Anyhow when I reasembled everything with the new cam, and put the shims back in the original spots, the clearances were exactly the same. I'm about to close her all back up, does anyone have any other suggestions.

Ah yes one last thing!! I broke one of those stupid head cover bolts (the smallest of the 3). When they say 7ft lbs, then mean max 7 ftlbs and not a bit more!
Is there anything else i should do when starting my bike now that I have the new cam, is there any break in period or what not?

 

[fast]

you should have asked about break in when u got the cam
as far as i know the cam don't have to be broken in but don't trust me

 

[Poiks]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 2 2004, 12:22 AM
Anyhow I read in the manual, that is said to use an oil that contained moly in it.  I was at the auto parts store looking for an oil that this in it, and anyhow, I couldn't find one!!

One of the Honda oils mentioned in the owners manual has moly in it. However, I think if you look carefully at the beginning of the service manual, it indicates that the "Oil with moly" symbol indicates a 1:1 mix of oil and molybdenum grease.

 

[joe1l]

Desert 450R, I can see you are going to be a valuable asset to this board

Any how, the oil that I'm supposed to grease the cam with is

"Oil with moly" symbol indicates a 1:1 mix of oil and molybdenum grease.[/b]

Are you saying that I should use the Penzoil to coat the cam with or should i get something that is 1:1 mixture. Are you using that Pennzoil Long Life Dual Purpose Oil in 15W40 in your top end? I have used the pro honda HP4 so far w/o moly in the crank and have been using the Pro Honda HP Trans Oil for my tranny. (i have used this before on my 250R with great sucess). By the way where do you find this Penzoil long life oil?
Joe

 

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 2 2004, 12:22 AM
Is there anything else i should do when starting my bike now that I have the new cam, is there any break in period or what not?

That is the ONLY thing I can help you with...you are supposed to take it nice and easy when breaking in a cam...sorry cant help ya other than that

 

[Schmitthead]

kid,
can yo find something to support your veiw on cam break-in. I would like to see a reputable topic on this.

 

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by Schmitthead@May 2 2004, 03:03 PM
kid,
can yo find something to support your veiw on cam break-in. I would like to see a reputable topic on this.

You know what...I am only taking this from what I have heard now that I think about it...

I will try to dig something up on this subject..


*EDIT* I have emailed Pro-Flow about the Hot Cam, I will let ya know as soon as I find out! (Sparks doesnt have an email) *EDIT*

 

[Poiks]

Originally posted by joe1l@May 2 2004, 01:24 PM
Any how, the oil that I'm supposed to grease the cam with is QUOTE

"Oil with moly" symbol indicates a 1:1 mix of oil and molybdenum grease.

Are you saying that I should use the Penzoil to coat the cam with or should i get something that is 1:1 mixture. [/b][/quote]
The manual implies that it's a mixture you make yourself, using the recommended motor oil (10w-40) and molybdenum grease. I went to pep boys, bought some graphite-moly engine assembly grease, mixed some up with 10w-40 (equal parts) and applied it where recommended with a small brush.

 

[Jonesy]

First off....Jesus you all type alot!

Desert you seem to very knowledgable on many subjects and I look forward to reading more you technical discussions.

Thanks to everyone for shedding some light on this subject that is often passed over. I knew very little about what makes a good oil, and what were some of the alternatives (read cheaper) I could use.

Thanks again

Jonesy

 

[joe1l]

Ok I bought some Pennzoil Long Life Heavy Duty Engine Oil in 15W40. I don't see where it says that it has Moly in it. It says it has Pure Base in it. Anyhow, I'm going to go buy some moly assembly grease instead and mix it with the pezoil stuff I bought.
Joe

 

[fast]

let us know how it works

 

[meanrhino]

Wow desert knows his oils i am assuming it is because he is into desert or baja racing where heat power and reliability can hinder every race or ride


Now that i have read all of your typing which is alot i forgot by the time i got to the bottem what i read at the top

what oil do you recommend for break ''top end and bottem end'' in and for how long

Then would you recomend switching to somthing after ring seal and proper wear in has been alowed

if you do recomend switching what do u recomend switching too once again ''top end and bottem end''

i would like to add that beings that viscosity is affected by things like ambeant temp ''yeah i know i cant spell'' but i did study oils and viscosity for all hydraulic and pnuematic applications

what would you reccomend for us northerners i live in mn where i rarely ride in the cold or winter but i may

so is there one oil that i can ride with say down to 0 degrees or would you recomend changing oils for cold weather

what i am saying is that your knowledge is great but for people like me that would like to take the easy way out and just take your word for it and run what you say

thanx

 

[lukester720]

I used the molybendum grease when i installed my cam and it worked good. If you go into autozone or napa or wherever and you can't remember the name just tell them your installing a cam and you want to know what you should lube it with, they should know what your looking for and can point it out.

 

[meanrhino]

wow long post short question ha ha
thanx for the info now i need to print this and try to read and remember it every time i go to get some oil


i wish they could just make one called the ''GREATEST OIL FOR EVERYTHING" that would be fine with me

 

[Wan2Fly]

Originally posted by desert_450r+May 2 2004, 04:33 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-joe1l

@May 2 2004, 01:24 PM
Desert 450R, I can see you are going to be a valuable asset to this board 

Any how, the oil that I'm supposed to grease the cam with is QUOTE

<div class='quotemain'>"Oil with moly" symbol indicates a 1:1 mix of oil and molybdenum grease.

Are you saying that I should use the Penzoil to coat the cam with or should i get something that is 1:1 mixture. Are you using that Pennzoil Long Life Dual Purpose Oil in 15W40 in your top end? I have used the pro honda HP4 so far w/o moly in the crank and have been using the Pro Honda HP Trans Oil for my tranny. (i have used this before on my 250R with great sucess). By the way where do you find this Penzoil long life oil?
Joe [/b][/quote]
Now that makes sense ... Most assy lubes are in grease form; I was wondering why they said "oil" ...

I would go to an automotive performance store and get some run-of-the-mill cam lobe assembly grease that states Molybdenum based and go with that if it were me ... Be liberal in application too ... (If you didn't pre-lube the cam lobes with the recommended grease, I wouldn't run it until you did...) ... Moly actually will plate-up on the high friction points and prohibit scarring during break-in ... Awesome stuff ...

So disregard using motor "oil" for assy if they're asking for grease ...

---------

On the oil questions:

I think the Honda trans oil is what most use in the CRF and don't have any complaints, so that's what I'll use unless I have notchy shifting or it gets beat-up badly I'll look to an alternative ...

------------

Now in the motor side, I would really try to find a 10W40 or 15W40 that had a big dose of moly and that had a minimum of 1200PPM of Phos and Zinc ... Boron is a huge plus and so is Magnesium ... Calcium is an acid neutralizer so it's not as critical and it largely dictates TBN (total base number) ... The diesel 15W40's have well over my minimum amounts of the "ZDDP" of 1200 and most times more than fancy schmancy MC only oils ...

Joe, if you decide to go with a Dual purpose Diesel oil make sure that if you run the 15W40, that you don't run it below about 45 degrees ambient temp ... Below 45 Degrees I would run only one HDEO (Heavy duty engine oil) ... It would be the Rotella T 5W40 synthetic which isn't technically a synthetic but a Group III highly refined iso stock ... (matches Group IV nearly in perf) ...

Here's some homework for you ... Look up the tech specs on MC oils if you can; most of them are not privy to posting their sheets because then guys like us can compare them to HDEO's and see their true colors haha ... A data sheet will not tell the whole story about what an oil is capable of by all means, but it tells you alot about base oil quality and most times TBN, phos & Zinc, and other good info ...

I did some comparisons over the years with internal MC only data sheets and looked at VOA (virgin oil analyses) and UOA (used oil analyses) and a used analyses will tell you how a certain oil protects as wear metals show up in PPM form ... Saying this, I would not EVER run a 20W50 in a jap bike nor would I run a PCMO (passenger car motor oil) ... Too risky since GF-3 and GF-2 came out ... I would not hesitate to however run Chevron Delo 400 15W40 in my bike if I wanted a near syn base stock with no moly, or if I wanted Moly, then the Pennzoil LL 15W40 ... These 2 oils are marketed in huge amounts to truckers for a huge market so the batch sizes and sales amounts dictate price... It's $6.50 a gallon for that reason not because it's inferior to MC only oil ... But because it's NOT blended in small botique batches with fancy MC labels ...

In the winter probably run the Rotella T 5w40 ... It is about $13 a gallon ... But I have seen UOA's on it in air cooled hot running bikes and it is about as good as it gets for an OTC oil ...

I change my oil so often on bikes that if I bought Maxima or the like, I wouldn't drain as often ... So I'll take my HDEO's and dump often like I like to and be as well protected as any MC oil if not better than most of them ... There's nothing fancy or secretive about oil base or additives ... But some MC bottlers seem to think there is due to their "spin" words like anti-scuff additives and special formulation for wet clutches etc ... BTW, any OTC oil in 10W40 that's not friction modified without Moly "should" pass JASO MA ... But since oil companies are standardizing add packs, and since the 10W30's, 5W30's, and 5W20's get FM's - then for simplicity it seems they are running some in 10W40's on up ... Never used to be that way, but FM's are needed in dino oil to pass GF-3 ...

To end, don't get hung up on synthetics are better because they tolerate heat extremes better ... It is the TOTAL PACKAGE OF WHAT'S IN THE BOTTLE THAT MATTERS ... YOU CAN HAVE THE BEST CHEESE ON A PIZZA BUT IF THE REST SUCKS, YOU WILL NOT BE EATING MUCH ... lol ... Besides the latest Group II+ base oils and viscosity improvers namely Pennzoil's Shell-Vis (Pennzstar) are making oils 90% of what syns are and in the frequent drains most of us do, it's a waste of $ to run syn ... In the biggest respect, all a true syn does is allow extended drains IMO .. But hey, I would rather drain often to keep the floaties in the oil out of my motor ... Plus, the detergency of the HDEO's are number one because they have to run over 50,000 mile drains in diesels that soot the oil badly ... They clean well too ... (I know long, but I have just dented the surface on this topic)

In addition, we have in our R's Nikasil composite lining on our bores which is harder than steel in itself so I don't think anyone that has less than 1500 miles or so on their bikes should be running synthetic ... If you are or switched too early you might not have sealed the rings well enough ... At which point no matter how hard you run them, they won't benefit as well as if you ran dino for the first 1000-1500 miles especially in the first 25 hours of break-in where 80% of the sealing happens IMO ... It's a difficult area to negotiate with oils and bikes ... The folks who are proponents of MC only oils are not really saying anything wrong by saying stay away from car oil; they are largely right ... But you'll never hear them say stay away from HDEO Diesel/Gas oils ... LOL ... Chevron and Shell Rotella actually recommend their's for MC use LOL ...

FWIW, I ran the delo 400 in my EX's and drained every 5 rides and ran a CRT stainless filter ... My motor never smoked, used oil, and compared to the GN4, the shift feel was amazing ... It never slipped and I did a lot of idling in AZ heat ... I told my neighbor once, "this stuff comes out so clean and in grade that I could re-bottle it and use it again in my Rancher" ... The GN4 paled in comparison ... I have seen UOA's on the latest GN4 red label oil and it's not my first choice ...

cheers [/b][/quote]
Hello Desert,

I was reading about the oils for both the Trannie and the main oil system! My question is what do you think about Bel Ray SEA 80 gear oil for the trannie?

And belray synthetic for the main oil lube sysetm?

http://www.belray.com/consumer/newpages/productspage.html is the link page.

Look forward to your reply

Thanks Fly.

 

[TrX450rKiD]

Well, as Smitty requested, I found something to back up the beak-in process for a new cam

 Break in procedure

Upon initial start up it is very important you DO NOT let the engine idle.  The engine must run for at least 20 minutes at 3000 rpm or better. We recommend a light trail ride-to maintain the engine RPM above 3000 rpm.  Only light engine loads are to be used.  No excessive rpm or lugging.  Let the engine cool.  Check your valve clearances again.[/b]

This is taken directly from HotCams website B)