Originally posted by desert_450r+May 2 2004, 04:33 PM-->
@May 2 2004, 01:24 PM
Desert 450R, I can see you are going to be a valuable asset to this board
Any how, the oil that I'm supposed to grease the cam with is QUOTE
<div class='quotemain'>"Oil with moly" symbol indicates a 1:1 mix of oil and molybdenum grease.
Are you saying that I should use the Penzoil to coat the cam with or should i get something that is 1:1 mixture. Are you using that Pennzoil Long Life Dual Purpose Oil in 15W40 in your top end? I have used the pro honda HP4 so far w/o moly in the crank and have been using the Pro Honda HP Trans Oil for my tranny. (i have used this before on my 250R with great sucess). By the way where do you find this Penzoil long life oil?
Joe [/b][/quote]
Now that makes sense ... Most assy lubes are in grease form; I was wondering why they said "oil" ...
I would go to an automotive performance store and get some run-of-the-mill cam lobe assembly grease that states Molybdenum based and go with that if it were me ... Be liberal in application too ... (If you didn't pre-lube the cam lobes with the recommended grease, I wouldn't run it until you did...) ... Moly actually will plate-up on the high friction points and prohibit scarring during break-in ... Awesome stuff ...
So disregard using motor "oil" for assy if they're asking for grease ...
---------
On the oil questions:
I think the Honda trans oil is what most use in the CRF and don't have any complaints, so that's what I'll use unless I have notchy shifting or it gets beat-up badly I'll look to an alternative ...
------------
Now in the motor side, I would really try to find a 10W40 or 15W40 that had a big dose of moly and that had a minimum of 1200PPM of Phos and Zinc ... Boron is a huge plus and so is Magnesium ... Calcium is an acid neutralizer so it's not as critical and it largely dictates TBN (total base number) ... The diesel 15W40's have well over my minimum amounts of the "ZDDP" of 1200 and most times more than fancy schmancy MC only oils ...
Joe, if you decide to go with a Dual purpose Diesel oil make sure that if you run the 15W40, that you don't run it below about 45 degrees ambient temp ... Below 45 Degrees I would run only one HDEO (Heavy duty engine oil) ... It would be the Rotella T 5W40 synthetic which isn't technically a synthetic but a Group III highly refined iso stock ... (matches Group IV nearly in perf) ...
Here's some homework for you ... Look up the tech specs on MC oils if you can; most of them are not privy to posting their sheets because then guys like us can compare them to HDEO's and see their true colors haha ... A data sheet will not tell the whole story about what an oil is capable of by all means, but it tells you alot about base oil quality and most times TBN, phos & Zinc, and other good info ...
I did some comparisons over the years with internal MC only data sheets and looked at VOA (virgin oil analyses) and UOA (used oil analyses) and a used analyses will tell you how a certain oil protects as wear metals show up in PPM form ... Saying this, I would not EVER run a 20W50 in a jap bike nor would I run a PCMO (passenger car motor oil) ... Too risky since GF-3 and GF-2 came out ... I would not hesitate to however run Chevron Delo 400 15W40 in my bike if I wanted a near syn base stock with no moly, or if I wanted Moly, then the Pennzoil LL 15W40 ... These 2 oils are marketed in huge amounts to truckers for a huge market so the batch sizes and sales amounts dictate price... It's $6.50 a gallon for that reason not because it's inferior to MC only oil ... But because it's NOT blended in small botique batches with fancy MC labels ...
In the winter probably run the Rotella T 5w40 ... It is about $13 a gallon ... But I have seen UOA's on it in air cooled hot running bikes and it is about as good as it gets for an OTC oil ...
I change my oil so often on bikes that if I bought Maxima or the like, I wouldn't drain as often ... So I'll take my HDEO's and dump often like I like to and be as well protected as any MC oil if not better than most of them ... There's nothing fancy or secretive about oil base or additives ... But some MC bottlers seem to think there is due to their "spin" words like anti-scuff additives and special formulation for wet clutches etc ... BTW, any OTC oil in 10W40 that's not friction modified without Moly "should" pass JASO MA ... But since oil companies are standardizing add packs, and since the 10W30's, 5W30's, and 5W20's get FM's - then for simplicity it seems they are running some in 10W40's on up ... Never used to be that way, but FM's are needed in dino oil to pass GF-3 ...
To end, don't get hung up on synthetics are better because they tolerate heat extremes better ... It is the TOTAL PACKAGE OF WHAT'S IN THE BOTTLE THAT MATTERS ... YOU CAN HAVE THE BEST CHEESE ON A PIZZA BUT IF THE REST SUCKS, YOU WILL NOT BE EATING MUCH ... lol ... Besides the latest Group II+ base oils and viscosity improvers namely Pennzoil's Shell-Vis (Pennzstar) are making oils 90% of what syns are and in the frequent drains most of us do, it's a waste of $ to run syn ... In the biggest respect, all a true syn does is allow extended drains IMO .. But hey, I would rather drain often to keep the floaties in the oil out of my motor ... Plus, the detergency of the HDEO's are number one because they have to run over 50,000 mile drains in diesels that soot the oil badly ... They clean well too ... (I know long, but I have just dented the surface on this topic)
In addition, we have in our R's Nikasil composite lining on our bores which is harder than steel in itself so I don't think anyone that has less than 1500 miles or so on their bikes should be running synthetic ... If you are or switched too early you might not have sealed the rings well enough ... At which point no matter how hard you run them, they won't benefit as well as if you ran dino for the first 1000-1500 miles especially in the first 25 hours of break-in where 80% of the sealing happens IMO ... It's a difficult area to negotiate with oils and bikes ... The folks who are proponents of MC only oils are not really saying anything wrong by saying stay away from car oil; they are largely right ... But you'll never hear them say stay away from HDEO Diesel/Gas oils ... LOL ... Chevron and Shell Rotella actually recommend their's for MC use LOL ...
FWIW, I ran the delo 400 in my EX's and drained every 5 rides and ran a CRT stainless filter ... My motor never smoked, used oil, and compared to the GN4, the shift feel was amazing ... It never slipped and I did a lot of idling in AZ heat ... I told my neighbor once, "this stuff comes out so clean and in grade that I could re-bottle it and use it again in my Rancher" ... The GN4 paled in comparison ... I have seen UOA's on the latest GN4 red label oil and it's not my first choice ...
cheers [/b][/quote]
Hello Desert,
I was reading about the oils for both the Trannie and the main oil system! My question is what do you think about Bel Ray SEA 80 gear oil for the trannie?
And belray synthetic for the main oil lube sysetm?
http://www.belray.com/consumer/newpages/productspage.html is the link page.
Look forward to your reply
Thanks Fly.