FCR jetting 06+ - Honda TRX Forums: Honda TRX 450R Forum
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
CJM
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FCR jetting 06+

Ok Im baffled by this one. I have never had such a bad jetting issue before. I thought I had a gearing issue after I played with the jetting previously, and was at 13/36 but still short shifting so I went to 14/38 and then 14/39 for a bit more torque. But the reality is Ive come to realize after my glamis trip that its jetting related. It feels like Im hitting the classic false rev limiter issue at more than 1/2 throttle

Whats happening is I need to short shift and 3rd was fairly unusable. I was screaming in 2nd the entire trip, trying to go to 3rd was only an option if we were flying-any other time it would fall flat on its face in 3rd. Quad is stock besides ported head, stage 2 hot cam, open air box, uni, boyesen quick shot (edit) full dasa exhaust, 14/39 gearing. Jetting is currently 160 main, 48 pilot, ncvq needle 3rd notch and quickshot adjusted to 55 leak jet.

I did have a 165 main in there ncvq needle 3rd clip. In the morning when it was cold (45-50f) it was better but I was still short shifting, seems the last 1/2-3/4 throttle hits that false rev limiter. As the day wore on and got hotter to about 70F it got worse of course. I swapped to a 162 and better, then 160 and it was better but still needed to short shift. At night the header glowed way to much for my liking but by this point it was the last day. Before I messed with the jetting the quad would fall on its face if you tried 3rd and werent booking it, would have to ease into it or scream in 2nd to get the power and stay there.

Im at a loss here, I did the quick shot on a friends 450 and it had no issue. What else could it be or should I be playing with the jetting more? Less leak jet? The boyesen quick shot instructions state: 1/4 turn of the screw is #25 leak, 1/2 is #35 leak, 3/4 is #42 leak, 1 turn out #48, 1 1/8 is #50 and 2 2/4 turns out is #55 leak.



Quads being shipped back to me in 2 weeks so I cant really mess with much till then however

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris

Last edited by CJM; 02-17-2019 at 10:34 PM.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 10:24 PM
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There is no way that a FCR would use a 48 as a pilot, it probably wants a 42 if everything is in check, maybe the pilot dumps too much fuel and makes it rich.
My pipe glows red/red orange WOT at night, but I'm running leaner than everyone here, no problems, no torched valves, header turns black.

Do you get misfires at the top and maybe some pops, could be electrical ?!? But it seem to get better as you lean it, you may want to try a 42 pilot, I had a setup similar with high velocity porting, almost went to 40 pilot. I had stg 2 cam, ported head, open airbox, green wire (you cut it right ??), HRC header, with straight trough OEM gutted exhaust and stock carb, jetting was 42 pilot 1 turn, 0 leak, NGPR 2 nd notch, 155 main
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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gboezio, its prob a 42 pilot as the 04-05 I had took the 48 (just getting them confused). The pipe only glowed WOT at night after prolonged use, talking like 5 miles WOT here. It calmed down back to normal once I ran slower and wasnt WOT. Just had me slightly worried tho.

Forgot to add Im running a dasa and green wires been cut. I get no cutting out with electrical and its a new lithium battery, stator is new and I had a 50w LED bar and my stock lights on no issue at all.

No misfires or pops at all, if anything once moving along it runs great-does not feel like its out of gas/lack of fuel I dont have any issues running WOT either so I was doubtful it was the stator. I was WOT in 4th for like 50 miles no issue (25 miles to and then back), it didnt like 5th on that ride but hey thats the sand paddles and soft sand I was in. Previously no issues tapping out 5th on harder packed ground

My thought was to try going to 2nd notch on the needle first and keep the 160 and go from there, maybe adjust the quick shot for a slightly larger leak jet size to reduce the squirt? I think overall the head is flowing super well and that might be the issue-Im too rich in the mid range.

Overall to me its like this: short shifting 2nd, 3rd, 4th usually. The snappyness isnt there like it should be. WOT seems to be fine once you get there. Its like it bogs mid throttle and then picks itself up again or you gotta short shift.

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris

Last edited by CJM; 02-17-2019 at 10:48 PM.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 02:24 AM
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Have you tried to see how it runs with the Choke on? I ask about the choke because if the Pilot or the Mid range needle is set to rich and you turn the choke on and ride it will run a little better because it leans out.

Also try new fuel? Water in the Fuel by any chance?

Also just a thought it might not matter so much.... but you're going from 1300 ft Elevation jetting to almost sea level, it might run fine from your home town and then run shitty at 300 ft elevation. As far as I know going to the dunes you wanna go up a bit more main jet because the air is more dense.

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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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it ran rich with choke on, too much air if anything. Fuel had no water in it for sure, it ran like this before I left and we used several different gas stations while there. No one else had any issues with gas.

Elevation Ryan is nearly the same. Im at sea level to 100ft or so and glamis is maybe 100-200ft higher tops.


At this point, till I can get it back (waiting on the truck) all I can do is speculate. But Im thinking needle and then possibly the quick shot being the culprit. Its fine down low but the more you open the throttle the worse it gets-too much squirt from the AP I think.
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-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris

Last edited by CJM; 02-19-2019 at 08:36 AM.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:40 AM
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Large dragster style lazy ports usually need bigger jets, both needle and main, fast smaller ports, need smaller jets because they pull fuel under higher vacuum. Downsizing jets is common if you good midrange headget a

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gboezio View Post
Large dragster style lazy ports usually need bigger jets, both needle and main, fast smaller ports, need smaller jets because they pull fuel under higher vacuum. Downsizing jets is common if you good midrange headget a
? on the last few words there gboezio


But yea that was my initial thought as well, Im to rich and need to lean it out more. my thought as to go to 2nd needle clip, keep the main at 160 and then decrease the AP squirt.

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 10:32 AM
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Darn computer mouse started acting up and clicking everywhere.
Forgot what I was typing, but yes fast ports like small jets except AP that tends to go toward 35, one of my head needed a plug and still had a lean spike. If you are too rich you may not feel a lean out at 55, by backing up the fuel it may start to hickup, just give a bigger shot.
Carb bore is stock ?? It changes everything jet wise.
Airbox transition to carb inlet is a sensitive aera, stock carb and airbox works good, but with bored carb it's terrible, going to 42mm then to 45, then back to 43...

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Stock carb, stock box just no lid. Uni filter.


So you think larger AP squirt at this point? Am I reading that right? I can easily go to a #35 leak as well and see.

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris

Last edited by CJM; 02-19-2019 at 11:18 AM.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:45 AM
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Pull needle fuel before, then try it out, if it bogs on tip in, add some, may check the pilot to make sure it's a 42 while in there.
Get steady state fuel right before tuning the AP because it's fuel added on the top of the others.
After you figured out pilot, needle and main, I would lean out until it bogs down then richen up the squirt until it feels good

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gboezio View Post
Pull needle fuel before, then try it out, if it bogs on tip in, add some, may check the pilot to make sure it's a 42 while in there.
Get steady state fuel right before tuning the AP because it's fuel added on the top of the others.
After you figured out pilot, needle and main, I would lean out until it bogs down then richen up the squirt until it feels good


Got it. Thanks for your help. Iíll let you know how it turns out

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 03:51 AM
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Ohhh my bad about the Elevation thing.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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just got the quad back from the truck this past sunday.



1. the lithium battery i just bought seriously is weak already? I had enough and an AGM is on its way. I dont think those batteries like sitting without a tender on them, the first one i had hooked up till i left and it seriously didnt want to crank the quad over the 2 weeks it was off the tender before I got to glamis


2. Im not taking any chances. the stator was a used unit from a used engine a friend bought. although the bikes charging I dont think its charging well as the battery never seems to be charged up enough to crank the quad over all that well. so new oem stator is on its way. thinking more and more about it-even if it was jetting, ive seen even insanely rich jetting allow a bike to rev out more than mine does.



3. Hopefully stator is the issue. if not ill work on the carb and hopefully that fixes it. if not ill swap carbs with my buddy and see whats going on. Obviously if it runs fine carbs the issue and needs a full rebuild-maybe the slide gasket


4. another thought is I dumped the 06+ throttle in favor of the older non electronic type since you can use the longer throttle lever for a trx90. I shorted out the wiring for it but makes me wonder if theres an issue.



5. if all else fails i can always swap the cdi i suppose.


But I have till mid june to figure it out as I have another trip Im going on.

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 09:52 AM
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4. is not an issue. That is just a safety switch doesn't affect timing or anything as long as you didn't mess with the tps. If they were wired wrong it either would die when you gave it throttle or not start at all thinking it is stuck wide open.


On the stator, it could be a weak igniter coil, it would be charging perfect but spark would not be strong or may not rev good. I have had that before on various coils.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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4. is not an issue. That is just a safety switch doesn't affect timing or anything as long as you didn't mess with the tps. If they were wired wrong it either would die when you gave it throttle or not start at all thinking it is stuck wide open.


On the stator, it could be a weak igniter coil, it would be charging perfect but spark would not be strong or may not rev good. I have had that before on various coils.


The exciter coil maybe what you are talking about? It seems fine until I get past 1/2 throttle then it feels like the rev limiter kicks in

-2004 450R. Far From Stock.. Sold, crank was going
-2006 450R. New WHIP..
-Do it right the first time, and you wont have a problem later. Being cheap or taking the easy way out only makes matters worse later.
-Your Backyard Mechanic Extraordinaire: Responsible for bringing you redneck, ingenious and often interesting ways how to fix things.
-You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the H*ll happened. Captain Phil Harris
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