Valve question - Honda TRX Forums: Honda TRX 450R Forum
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By mx333
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
TRX90 Rider
 
cms1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 34
Valve question

My intake shim is down to a 1.2mm on the shifter side and 1.3mm on the brake pedal side. Will it be okay to just get new oem intake valves and replace them or do the seats always need to be cut?

I was looking into getting a valve job but for the price it seems better to just buy a whole new head?
cms1994 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
TRX90 Rider
 
cms1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 34
I should probably mention the bike in question is a 06 ER
cms1994 is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 06:15 PM
450R Veteran
 
mx333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mapleton,Utah
Posts: 3,689
You will need seats cut with new valves and possibly need ex guides as well

05 Trx450r(s)
Walsh/Pep/Rath
mx333 is offline  
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 12:57 AM
250EX Rider
 
unruler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
If you want to stick with stock valves you can use the 04-05 intakes. They're steel and will last longer. Definitely need the seats cut.
unruler is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
TRX90 Rider
 
cms1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by unruler View Post
If you want to stick with stock valves you can use the 04-05 intakes. They're steel and will last longer. Definitely need the seats cut.
Would that also require new springs too though?

I found an 07 motor close by on craigslist for $600 with a blown thrust washer on the crank. I talked to the guy and he said the head/valves was still good on it. I was thinking i could probably keep the whole top end, part out the rest, and make my money back. Good buy? What do you guys think?
cms1994 is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 12:09 AM
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 105
No you do not need to Re cut The Seats unless a seat is Damaged, also no you should not need new Exhaust Valve Guides.

I will have to say for the Intake Valves If you wanna go the Cheaper Rout get you some OEM 04/05 TRX450R Valves, if you want good Long lasting Valves if you're one of them Guys who love High Revving... go with some Ferrea Stainless Steel Valves or Kibble White Stainless Steel.

Another Suggestion if you're really contemplating buying a Whole New Head just send it off to Racers Edge. For the price you'd pay for a entire new head even Used Racers Edge will put in all new +1 Valves, Springs Re Grind the Valves for less then 500 bucks... Or if you want REALLY good porting work done.... have them port it as well 600 Bucks is what they would charge for that still same price as a Whole new head.

2005 TRX450R Ported & Polished Head, Decked Head at 0.30, 41mm FCR Swap (2007 CRF450R Carburetor), NCVQ Needle, Uni Filter, Big Gun Exhaust, HRC Cam, 11:5.1 High Compression Piston, & 15T Front Spocket.
RyanW is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 02:31 AM
450R Veteran
 
morgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
No you do not need to Re cut The Seats unless a seat is Damaged, also no you should not need new Exhaust Valve Guides.
This is 110% incorrect. The seats for sure need to be cut. When a valve cups what do you think it does to the 45*? If you just drop in new valves, it'll take less than a few rides to smoke the new valves. You're also just guessing that you can get the correct installed height back with a 36 which 90% of the time isn't the case. As far as the exhaust guides, they are a high wear item on a TRX due to the geometry of the rocker arm and will likely need replaced.

To add to the thread 04/05 valves are butter soft and one of the worst OEM valves ever. If you replace the 06+ Ti valves, they should be replaced with another Ti valve after the seats have been cut or a good Ferrea stainless valve.

Just an OG
IG: @modern_race
morgan is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 02:43 AM
450R Veteran
 
mx333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mapleton,Utah
Posts: 3,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
No you do not need to Re cut The Seats unless a seat is Damaged, also no you should not need new Exhaust Valve Guides.

I will have to say for the Intake Valves If you wanna go the Cheaper Rout get you some OEM 04/05 TRX450R Valves, if you want good Long lasting Valves if you're one of them Guys who love High Revving... go with some Ferrea Stainless Steel Valves or Kibble White Stainless Steel.

Another Suggestion if you're really contemplating buying a Whole New Head just send it off to Racers Edge. For the price you'd pay for a entire new head even Used Racers Edge will put in all new +1 Valves, Springs Re Grind the Valves for less then 500 bucks... Or if you want REALLY good porting work done.... have them port it as well 600 Bucks is what they would charge for that still same price as a Whole new head.
Wrong. Seats need cut when installing new valves back to installed height. 1.450 intake and 1.515 on the exhaust. Guides on the ex don't take long to wear out either.
mx333 is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 02:51 AM
450R Veteran
 
morgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
No you do not need to Re cut The Seats unless a seat is Damaged, also no you should not need new Exhaust Valve Guides.
This is 110% incorrect. The seats for sure need to be cut. When a valve cups what do you think it does to the 45*? If you just drop in new valves, it'll take less than a few rides to smoke the new valves. You're also just guessing that you can get the correct installed height back with a 36 which 90% of the time isn't the case. As far as the exhaust guides, they are a high wear item on a TRX due to the geometry of the rocker arm and will likely need replaced.

To add to the thread 04/05 valves are butter soft and one of the worst OEM valves ever. If you replace the 06+ Ti valves, they should be replaced with another Ti valve after the seats have been cut or a good Ferrea stainless valve.

Just an OG
IG: @modern_race
morgan is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 05:10 AM
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan View Post
This is 110% incorrect. The seats for sure need to be cut. When a valve cups what do you think it does to the 45*? If you just drop in new valves, it'll take less than a few rides to smoke the new valves. You're also just guessing that you can get the correct installed height back with a 36 which 90% of the time isn't the case. As far as the exhaust guides, they are a high wear item on a TRX due to the geometry of the rocker arm and will likely need replaced.

To add to the thread 04/05 valves are butter soft and one of the worst OEM valves ever. If you replace the 06+ Ti valves, they should be replaced with another Ti valve after the seats have been cut or a good Ferrea stainless valve.
You know I'll own up to admitting that the 05 Valves are junk now thinking about it yes you;re right on that Morgan. But as for the cutting seats I have never had an Issue by not cutting Seats and here is my answer... The only Time I re cut a Valve Seat is if the Valve will not Seal all the way around after Re lapping them or if the seats look good by using a Sharpie ( if the Valves are only sealing on a Thin Line after using a Sharpie or there is a low spot where no sharpie ink transferred) then yes Re Cut them. I have never seen a valve get Ruined after doing it the way I have done it, as long as it's Lapped first.... Exhaust Guides Sure, good Point but the chances of it being worn out on a "Stock" head that's never been messed with chances are really slim unless you have already Shortened Guides to began with which then allows the valves to Wobble Around and then Wears the Guides

2005 TRX450R Ported & Polished Head, Decked Head at 0.30, 41mm FCR Swap (2007 CRF450R Carburetor), NCVQ Needle, Uni Filter, Big Gun Exhaust, HRC Cam, 11:5.1 High Compression Piston, & 15T Front Spocket.

Last edited by RyanW; 12-03-2016 at 05:13 AM.
RyanW is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 09:23 AM
Cane Rider!
 
Thrown Stones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by cms1994 View Post
My intake shim is down to a 1.2mm on the shifter side and 1.3mm on the brake pedal side. Will it be okay to just get new oem intake valves and replace them or do the seats always need to be cut?

I was looking into getting a valve job but for the price it seems better to just buy a whole new head?


Do yourself a favor. Listen to Morgan and Skyler (mx333). These guys know what their talking about. Also call Racer's Edge too. John has a wealth of knowledgeable information. Which he willingly shares.
Thrown Stones is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 12:35 PM
450R Veteran
 
mx333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mapleton,Utah
Posts: 3,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
You know I'll own up to admitting that the 05 Valves are junk now thinking about it yes you;re right on that Morgan. But as for the cutting seats I have never had an Issue by not cutting Seats and here is my answer... The only Time I re cut a Valve Seat is if the Valve will not Seal all the way around after Re lapping them or if the seats look good by using a Sharpie ( if the Valves are only sealing on a Thin Line after using a Sharpie or there is a low spot where no sharpie ink transferred) then yes Re Cut them. I have never seen a valve get Ruined after doing it the way I have done it, as long as it's Lapped first.... Exhaust Guides Sure, good Point but the chances of it being worn out on a "Stock" head that's never been messed with chances are really slim unless you have already Shortened Guides to began with which then allows the valves to Wobble Around and then Wears the Guides
I hope you're not lapping titanium valves cause that's a huge red flag. You can Trash the coating on the titanium valve and it's its junk.
Just cause they are sealing on your sharpie doesn't mean the 45 on the seat is the correct width or correct installed height.
gboezio likes this.
mx333 is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 09:49 PM
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 105
@MX33
I do not do it with Titanium Valves because I do not use Titanium Valves only Stainless steel


I do agree Maybe I was wrong to say that you can get away with out Re Cutting the Valve Seats but I am just trying to Save him a little Money if he is not someone who is hard rider or anything like that I have never seen a valve get Ruined as long as it seals it should be fine IMO.

All I was trying to do is be nice and help someone out instead of making him spend a **** load of Extra money if he is just a Normal Rider


Maybe I'll start cutting valve seats for now on since I have the tools for it, just rarely cut seats unless there is damage as I stated before... I have always taken Heads to RE (Since they are 15 Minutes Away from me) and they have always looked at my seats and never said anything like "OH LETS RE CUT THE SEATS" because I'm sure if they were that bad they would Notice that and tell me...


But Like I DID SAY if you want a Complete Valve job send it off to RE for 500 Bucks they will do all of that as you guys are mentioning.... So I mean my Info was not all that bad... If you want a Valve job and head work it would be a bt over 600.00 So I guess I'm just a moron and don't have any good Information it according to you guys.

2005 TRX450R Ported & Polished Head, Decked Head at 0.30, 41mm FCR Swap (2007 CRF450R Carburetor), NCVQ Needle, Uni Filter, Big Gun Exhaust, HRC Cam, 11:5.1 High Compression Piston, & 15T Front Spocket.

Last edited by RyanW; 12-03-2016 at 10:10 PM.
RyanW is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-08-2016, 07:26 AM
450R Rider
 
gboezio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Victoriaville, Qc
Posts: 2,092
I always get them recut, reason is that it take the same time to figure out they need than cutting them and that a good seat transfers more heat to the head and the valves run cooler. I get stock seat width 5 angle cut for my hot running abuse.

But Ryan, the way you did is time consuming, but it's ok since they were in good shape.

2008 TRX 450ER XC racing
FMSQ # 281
gboezio is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda TRX Forums: Honda TRX 450R Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome