well heres the dyno sheet from Racers Edge AZ on friday3-6-09

67hp-42tq

crap very nice numbers, must be a blast to ride

didn't someone say that when a superflow dyno say DJWH on the sheet that the numbers are incorrect ?

i thing it was tesri or something like that who said it


nice numbers ... if there right

i know of a 470 thats pulling that hp locally.

nice build. hopefully you've gotten all the bugs out. all the trouble you've had getting that monster going sure would suck. cometic must be loving you. LOL (head gaskets)

make sure i got this right......... a 208 and .005 off the head netted a 9 hp gain and 5 ft. lbs of torque?????

was there an exhaust change in there as well???? i didnt remember flashing between posts

Yes, we switched from Rossier to a Dasa. Before we took the head off, we switched to dasa. Not very much change, to me not worth the $$$. after Brett did his thing to the head and shaved the .005 off we put the rossier back on, ran it, then switched to the Dasa again, and then we gained i think around 2/2 in the 7-9k range. so that's when i decided to buy it.

we took it to the dunes yesterday, not very many folks there. did run against a 700 raptor, he said it was bored and a hc piston, didn't say how much on either, and we'd beat him. but i know i need to change paddles though.

I have no idea on this. I'm going to get it dynoed on the one were we got the 58/38, and see what we get.

good lord those that thing has got to be fast as hell

on a different dyno......

i was hoping you were going to do that it will be interesting to finally see the gain from one head and cam to racers edge head work
and the 208. im on the fence about going with re and that info will be great help in deciding.

well we havent had a chance to bring it to pure evil to dyno it yet cuz its sunday but from the seat of the pants riding it yesterday at armagosa compared to what it was before we went to RE but seat of the pants hp its a huge difference.

Im thinking of running this thing in FSW at dumont this weekend. Its a little heavier than stock in its current state but im gonna take of alot of parts to drop weight.

Front brake calipers and rotors.
Fan
Head light and tail light
my front and rear fenders are cut
Nerf bars.

anything anybody else can think of without spending money

What was the baseline at RE? Was it close to the 58/38 from pure evil?

the base line from RE was 61hp. remember we changed from a hot cam st3 to a web 208 inbetween dynos, and RE was 1hp higher than pure evil dyno on greys bike so we can believe we gained 2hp from a hot cam st3 to a web 208

any vid's of this in action??

i will wear my helmet cam if they let me at FSA in dumont

We already had a RE head on it. They just did some tinkering to it when we were there friday. with the RE head and st III cam it dynoed here in vegas at 58/38. I then put in the 208 cam. we then went to RE and 1st run was like 61/38. but after the head rework on friday and swapping to the dasa we ended up with the 67+/41+ readings. so when we get it dynoed again here in vegas will see what it gets then. there will be one difference between the set up we had at RE and when we dyno it it here, is that we lost the air filter on the way back home yesterday. I don't know if anyone here in town has the same one or not. I got that one from KBR when i bought their intake. I have another uni filter, the one we lost was a K&N. When we dynoed it here in vegas, we used the uni, then we switched to the K&N and we gained like .1/.2 on HP.

is that kbr intake your talking about a ds 650 intake? just curious. thats what iv seen them run before on there drag frame bike down in La
iv got a few of those around my shop but iv never dynoed with it to compare any differences between any other intakes.

If your going to run the duner class you have to have front brakes. There is really not a whole lot of free weight to be taken off. But with you at 135 you may already be real close to the 505 limit. The head light weights a little and the rear plastics are 7lbs. Nerfs, bumper, fan. Really about the only free stuff I can think off...

Im taking the nerfs off tonight and then im gonna run up to this place that has a car scale at the speedway and get it weighed to get as close to 505lbs as i can cuz this thing runs.

Don't try to get right at 505, because you're just flirting with a DQ. Stay on the safe side and plan on being a little on the heavy side. A few lbs isn't worth the gamble.

You're definitely going to be up against some fast bikes.

interesting....

that is an absolutely unbelievable gain!

.... it would have been a bit better for comparisons if all the runs were done on the same dyno as the first ones....

still... going from 58/37 to 67/42 is amazing.....

it will be a great finish to the story if you actually go back ot the first dyno for re-testing...!

an interesting side note is that there is a "DJrwhp" correction applied to the readings....

that is one exception i take to the superflow's.... you can program in whatever correction % factor you want..... to get whatever readings you want...


when terse tests on a superflow in his hometown....without the DJ correction factor...his numbers are spot on with the dynojet numbers at little sahara.... if he uses the DJ correction factor, his numbers are fully 10% higher than the actual dynojet dyno readings....

i'm not saying anything at all about a good shop doing excellent work... which they obviously did....i'm just pointing out some facts about dynos in general

i knew i read somewhere that when that DJWP was there the numbers were not correct

..Owell..





helps with promotion of business i guess.

John-

Terse and I discussed the STP he uses and the DJWP that we use not to long ago. Our DJ numbers were almost spot on with his SF STP numbers. His DJ Correction factor was much higher then its suppose to be or need be. Ill see if I can find the link for you.

Link: http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?sho...71073&st=60 (Page 5)

that some pretty impressive tinkering with the head.
your base was 61hp
the dasa added 2hp
that means what brett did to the head added 4hp over their gen 1 porting.

did it feel good riding it or is it a drag motor now thats not fun to dune? if its still fun to ride i cant see anyone wanting a gen 1 head if they are leaving 4hp on the table.

any degreeing of the cam done?
i would also like to know how the intakes did agenst each other.

congrats on the build and nice work RE

ya this quad is still completely dunable and i dont care about the djwhtp or whatever means corrections were made making runs 10% higher than dyno jet cuz i can feel the difference after the dyno. heres an example of how much faster she is regardless of dyno numbers.

at dumont on valentines weekend when we got 58 on pure evil's dyno, there was this trx, also a 511-2004 trx with all Venom parts.head. exhaust. ect. he was a little more drag setup than mine with the front end lowerd. he would get me by 6 lenghth by half of banshee hill but i would start to catch up but never passed him. 3 weeks later 1 day after we get back from RE,AZ when there dyno said 67 hp we ran into the same guy at armogasa. well i bet him by atleast 6 lenghths and kept pulling. You know what he said. Hes getting a dasa and RE head after he saw the change in mine after re did some more work.

Thanks morgan and john and brett, ill see you guys at dumont for FSW

Why? If the Gen. 1 porting got them to 62HP then whats the problem with the Gen. 1 stuff? Most people dont want the maintenence of the higher HP motor.

Don wanted more. Thats what he got.

i dont understand why everyone is more focused on the dynos and not your build.

you swapped cams then did a base run that was 61. you gained 3 hp from pure evil.
2 of that can be from the cam (im not sure how they stack up) and it was already said that RE reads 1hp higher then pure evil.
you said you got 2 hp from the exhaust
that leaves 4 hp from the extra headwork

if the math is correct and it should be you should get 66hp at pure evil. but in the end who cares, it runs great, you did a base run, then made a 6hp gain from your base run, isn't that what dynos are for? to see where gains come from?

again nice build!

what about the details on the intakes?

Congrats... .....sounds like you got yourself a bonafide missle

I just have one suggestion for you when you go to FSW....HOLD ON!

two reasons,

#1 if im spending 500 on a head so it will be faster and i can still get 1hp per $100 for another $400 then here is my check. that just me. im not spending every dime i have on my quads so if i can afford #500 i can swing $900.

#2 im lazy. i would rather do it once and ride it. i would be pissed at myself if i left something on the table that would cause me no extra down time.

morgan im not putting down your gen1 work, im just saying the way i am i would want it all.

what extra maintenence is there with the extra porting? or was something else done?

extra maintence due to extra horse power. all engine components are getting more stress due to reving faster and more combustion. and more horse power spinning everything faster and harder. but remember these machines were built to be reliable. there built to be fast

Lookforward to meeting you I will be with the KMS crew and others !!!! See everyone there John J&J !!!!

ya ill look for ya. i wanna se that 640 run. are you running that in the duner class. i hope not j/k lol cuz thats what im running in lol

i must be slow today because im not getting it.
nothing is spinning faster, 8,000 rpm is still 8,000 rpms
vavles arnt taking anymore of a beating (same cam = same cam)
you didnt raise compression so the rings dont have to hold more of a load
oil wont get dirtier any faster do to new port layout

the only "maintenece" items i can see taking more abuse are clutch, chain, and sprockets

sure the tranny is under much more load but i dont consider that maintenece

That should be tomorrow. were even waiting to change the chain till after cuz we got a non o-ring chain to put on it

if you think highly of racers edge and there work you should go back to the original dyno (pure evil), because if it makes 66hp like hawk did the math and keeps the same curve like before (meaning you didnt lose significant bottom end due to cam timing to gain peak numbers)im willing to spend the $900 bills at racers edge to make that kind of power.

In case you didn't read the post above yours or the other ones he is dynoing it on Thursday at Pure Evil.
I bet the "numbers" will be pretty close to the same as they were at RE.

ooops i didnt see that thanks for "pointing it out"

and its not the "numbers" im really interested about, its the CURVE.........

if the bike picked up power like it looks like without losing to much bottom or mid im sold on the
head work and cam at racers edge

There are very few with the Gen. 2 06+ head. We dont hand them out to anyone. I can guarantee most dont want to take the time, effort, or money it takes to build a Gen.2 motor. Hell, I dont even have a Gen. 2 head on my personal 07. My 488 makes 58HP and its more than enough bike, and I weigh 220.

Just cause you can swing the 800 for a Gen. 2 head, does not mean all can swing the 5k worth of parts to make it what it needs to be. JMO.

we were down at pure evil today picking up my new tires and 15tooth front sprocket. we might postpone the dyno till after FSW because they are prety busy trying to get some of there bikes there, and we dont wanna take up time so they can get other poeples bikes together. but he does wanna dyno it soon to see a comparison. we know its gonna be a good gain.

ok this make sence to me, but let me ask a question to make sure im on the right track. if you were to pull your head and swap in a gen 2 what kind of gains would you see on your 488?

the reason i ask is that im at 57.4 hp on a 480. i feel that porting, intake, and exhaust are the most reliable ways to make power because there are no moving parts. i have been waiting for you guys to get your cnc program done for the 04/05s plus with weather and work i havent even seen my quad in mounths. now that the sun is out im thinking quads again, but if there isnt much to gain without another 5k in parts then i would be like many and do gen1.

SO it costs over 5 grand in motor mods etc to see upper 60s? There have been lots of 70/50 claims over time is a walk in the park to make but it sounds like at a great great cost...

what does it cost for the average joe just wanting a good running 60 horse build?

On this build I spent between 2 & 2.5K on the motor. +3 crank, RE head, Dasa exhaust, 100mm piston, sleeved cylinder. this does't include all the labor cost and time spent. Is it worth it? My son and I enjoy it. Is it the fastest? Most likely not. Will I spend more? I doubt it. I got an 05 i'm going to build. I've been picking up some spare parts here and there for it.

Bottom line is, It aint cheap, it just what your willing to spend. One thing to remember, go with known parts that work together, like head/exhaust/carb/intake combo's. Not all heads work well with all exhaust/carbs & intakes.

Will see what this thing does this weekend. The #'s say it should be fast, but still need to dial in grearing with new tires.

Sounds like a nice build Don, grats man.

I already i have 5000k+ trying mulitple combos. Some have worked some havent and the most power I have seen is 64.5hp and 40.5tq (peak) out of a 511 but i didnt like the curve. So I changed cams and adjusted cam timing and ended up with 60hp and 42tq and a more solid curve it pulled peak power sooner and longer. So if the gen 2 produces that much more power peak without hurting the curve ill buy it.

hoop and hitokiri
sorry to be asking questions in your topic, i didnt meant to get if off topic.

myself and istallon are in the same place, we have quads that run good. like morgan said a 58hp quad is fun to ride and runs real good. istallion's quad is over 60 and he has been all over the map looking for more 511, 521, 544, different cams, exhaust, what has stayed the same is the head, so in the back of your minds is "is it the head?" we are both affraid that we will plunk down a grand on a new head to find out our existing heads are pretty darn good and only gain a couple hp.
neither of us is questioning RE and their work, they have proven themselves over and over.

couldnt agree more regarding combo...when i went after a certain number with my build I knew it would take a carb and more valve to get there...but i did the carb and sent with the head so intake runners could be matched properly to the 43 mil size carb...and made sure the boot was matched...to many motors missing power over the fact they ported a head then got carb later...if the head is not blended to carb there is power left right there as well as turbulence...some would disagree but the little details make a difference in motors end output...one small flaw can screw the pooch...

I've read on here that folks are calling mine a gen 2 head. I don't know if it is or not. All I know is Brett did somethings to it, I wasn't in the same room when he did it, and didn't ask what he did. Maybe he or Morgan will chime in and let me know. I have no idea what the difference is between the gen 1/2.

After the base dyno run at RE,(62+/ 36, not sure on torque #) John and Brett asked were I wanted to be. I said around 65hp. I knew the head had to come off because of bad gasket. They did there thing and I ended up at 67+. I'm sure I was losing some compression with the bad gasket, so maybe all the gains just wasn't in the head/exhaust. I could gain some more HP by just running some c12 or u4.2 . I think Brett also mention MR8, but that's like $125/5gal

IS C-12 fuel close in performance to u-4 ?

Mr. Hawkins I can not go into detail anymore on this, as Ive been warned before about advertising, but I will say that there is only one CNC head for the 04-05, and Ive had 2 in the last week make over 70. Also the Gen. 2 06+ motors will only be built in-house. And please, please dont take this the wrong way, but the mods in IStallions signature are a ways from what I would consider a "combo".

You can PM me on a site I sponsor if you would like. Not here to step on toes.