the first round of testing is done for Venom's new shop 08 LTR450 (sunshine).....

so far, of the 450's, the LTR makes the most HP for the least amount of effort and cash.... from this point , cost will go up....but the LTR off to a great start...actually not even a bad end point...for an excellent all around 450 machine... :)

i also tested a popular aftermarket exhaust for the LTR..... and it actually lost power compared to the uncorked stock unit...which is actually a performance, straight through, open core glasspack type of exhaust with a buttplug added to it.... since it lost power...and the stock unit worked so well when unplugged...all of this testing is with the stock exhaust on it.... :)

the LTR is the first bone stock 450 to touch the 40HP mark on the Venom Dyno..... the TRX's and YFZ's have been from 37 to 38 HP.... all tests done with dyno tires....

First Graph is Bone Stock VS STK with the lid pulled off the airbox:

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and then a graph with Stock VS lid off VS uncorked exhaust:

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Is that second graph with the Cherrybomb unit installed?

next we add the Cherry Bomb to switch the Fuel Injection map to the "uncorked" file that is already in the FI control module.....

Cherry Bomd is a name derived from CRBM... or Co-Axial Relay Bypass Module.... it is really sort of a "plug in jumper cable" that switches to another fuel metering program....and anything sold as this module does the same thing... no matter what name is on it.... or what it looks like on the outside....

really good of Suzuki to have a port for such an inexpensive, well made, changing of fuel maps for an "uncorked" setup...... i also have a Power Commander 3 setup ready to write custom fuel maps for, but to the current point in testing the CRBM map has been excellent for Air\Fuel Ratios.... nice!

all of the ads say that the CRBM, in conjunction with whatever brand performance exhaust, is worth "about" +7HP on the LTR..... the truth is that the simple lid off + exhaust plug out + CRBM is worth about 6HP... :)

so this graph shows the difference in power with the lid off and exhaust plug pulled.... VS the same setup with the Cherry Bomb plugged in to change the electronic "jetting" to correct...and as a bonus, it also bump the rev limiter rpm up:


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and here is the fuel curve\ jetting\ AFR difference with and without the CRBM.....

without it, and uncorked machine is running DANGEROUSLY lean @ around 17:1 AFR.....

with it.... the machine has a wonderful A\FR Graph..... maybe a touch rich on top... but still, it's perfectly safe..

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so.... here we are so far.... the difference between bone stock...

VS

pulling the airbox lid + unplugging the exhaust + CRBM ( some sell for as little as $20 )


so 20 bucks has gotten us an upped rev limiter.... a great fuel curve.... and this excellent bump from the stock power level


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next.... the suzuki center mount exhaust sort of crowds the airbox....both from the right side AND from the back.....

so the air filter is on the small side for a 450... the problem is that you can't have a foam filter that small on a performance 450... there isn't enough surface area on a foam filter that small....

so the added surface are of switching to a K&N filter made to swap into the stock airbox made for a nice bump in the power across tha band....!

so now we have about $70 total dollars invested in peformance upgrades

this Dyno Graph shows the stock foam filter VS the drop-in K&N


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Next UP we test the difference with the addition of a Hot Cams intake Cam....

a big thanks to site sponsor Woodward's Specialties here! Paul @ Woodward's has always the best prices and service on just about anything you could need..... Paul hooked me up with Great Prices on the the parts in these tests.....and when i told him i wanted the Hot Cam intake Cam...Paul asked me if i also wanted the Hot Cam exhaust cam.... i told him no thanks....

since i have tested more yamaha cam sets than just about anyone.... i have found this to be true of them all.... as is the rule for 4-strokes, they are VERY sensitive to intake cam profiles.... but pretty much insensitive to exhaust profiles (assuming the exhaust profile isn't a disaster from the factory)

all of the YFZ tests failed to make a differece of even a half HP with the changing of the exhaust cam... the dyno even has a hard time picking up the difference...

so Paul told me he would buy the Hot Cams Exhaust cam himself... and donate it to my testing... Paul said he would want to know the real deal so he could give his customers accurate advice....

Thanks again Paul!


First graph shows the Hot Cam Intake Cam didn't give up any bottom end to make for a nice gain on top end.... i LOVE when that happens.... because i HATE giving up bottom end to make top end......

so ...we picked up 2HP peak... more than that from peak to the rev limiter...and gave up no bottom end to do it.....NICE... !

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the next graph actually has 2 runs on it..... one with only the addition of the Hot Cams intake Cam...and the other is with BOTH Hot Cams intake and exhaust cams...... you could say that the exhaust cam was worth about a quater of a HP based on these runs... but i have to say that the LTR exhaust cam upgrade still falls into the same category as the testing of the YFZ.... not worth it....


i'm not going to count the added expense of the Hot Cams exhaust cam in the $$ tally of these tests...since it didn't add to the power... and actually it didn't really cost me anything....but i'm still not taking it out....LOL...thanks again Paul..!

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and a pic of the cams..... stock cams on the left\ Hot Cams on the right..... intakes top...exhausts bottom



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next freebie mod....

as i mentioned before, the suzuki airbox is pretty small.....

so i cut a window into the left side of the airbox.... i chose the left side based on the exhaust adding heat to the air on both the right and back sides of the box....and the engine would add heat to the front... not that it really would make any difference, but that's the criteria i used to pick a spot to cut....

it still leaves the airbox largely intact...and more protection than a purely open element....

another excellent boost...again with no powerband loss... a big plus across a wide band.....


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and the picture of the window cut


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every mod to the intake was a wonderful gain....

not counting the removal of the airbox lid:

the addition of the K&N air filter added 1.69HP and 1.02TQ
...........then cutting the window added 1.72HP and 1.63TQ
for a total addition of + 3.41HP and 2.65TQ

so here it is.... the difference from bone stock .... to :

pulled airbox lid
uncorked stock exhaust
CRBM fuel curve switch
Hot Cams intake Cam
K&N air filter for stock box
Window cut in airbox

Close to +11HP and +7 TQ ...
for a total of 51.08HP and 35.01TQ....
for a total budget of about $250

at this point, this 08 LTR450 would seriously hurt the feelings of plenty of 450's that have a good amount of $$ spent on them..... if i wasn't doing R&D for Venom .... i'd be pretty darn happy with the power curves just as they are.... :)

Click to view attachment

Wow that's some pretty good numbers for what little you have done to it. And all these mods can be done without messing with jets. You just plug that cherry bomb in and it's ready to go? Sounds to good to be true lol.

Very nice... How big do you plan to go with this build?

What stage hotcam did you use?

so far i haven't even had to pull the Power Commander out of the box.... which is excellent....

no jet changes... no burnt hands...or hands that smell like gasoline...

I love my honda but I planned on getting the suzuki but Honda gave me a lot more for my street bike that I was wanting to trade in. The funny part is I was trading in a suzuki street bike lol.

the bore kit pistons should be ready within a few weeks.... the LTR will finally end up as a 100mm\ 500cc setup.....

no plans to do any stroker work.... 500cc on bore alone will be very cost effective...

stage 1...

i didn't even look to see if there were any other stages made for the LTR....

i have always been a Honda lover... right down to my Honda Wing Tattoo on my left shoulder....!

and a HRC Kitted 06 & up TRX is a good runner for not a lot of $$....

BUT...

you have to give props to suzuki for giving a machine that has a wide stance and great suspension from the factory.... without buying things like wide A-Arm kits and wide axles.... that stuff adds up... of course it's not really needed for all types of riding....

Great write up John, not that I have one or am interested in one because of my riding style, but a great power gain for a small amount of money. Thanks for the doing the test and providing the info..

Ryan

thanks Ryan.....

always glad to share info.....

nope...that's the next graph.....

Now just find me some free power or cheap power for my KFX..lol. I know your not doing any testing on them so I figured I would harass you about it...

Sorry off topic, continue.

thats pretty impressive for just 250. i couldn't imagine that. my question is- do you think that since it upgrades so easily with just basic mods that it will keep upgrading this smoothly once you get deeper in the engine? i hope you kind of understand what i'm trying to say. sorta like on a honda just adding the mods that you did to a honda just shows a little gain but once you get into port and flow and hc and etc it turns into a beast. i just hope that once you go hc and port and flow and etc on the zuki that it just doesn't mellow out and only bump up like 3 or 4 more horses,kinda hard to explain. but i really don't see it staying mellow cause hc and port and just opens it up more so it can breath ,and you already have some ausom a/f readings,so who knows what you'll end up with.

are you going to go to 14 to 1 and port and flow stock bore before you jump up to a 500,cause i'm kinda anxious to see what it will do stockbore wise. sorta like the pro's,there restricted to a 450 stockbore machine. just wanting to see which one of the 450's would be the baddest.

good luck mixxer,

x2 and thanks for the info!

I've talked to John about all his LTR R&D so I'll skip the adda boy's....

I think you should do a 14.1 stock bore before the 500cc as well.

So..

Stock bore 14.1 Venom piston.... then dyno, then porting stock valves, then +1 ( ) then 500cc. Then bored out throttle body and bigger injector......

Endless!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

And as far as the before stock vs. after simple mods.... F- ME!!!! That's alot!!!!!

yep... i fully understand what you are saying..... the closer a machine comes to high output originally...the less is left to coax out of it with further mods....

box stock, the suzuki has the best head in the 450 class..... and 450cc's will all end up hitting the wall at a level dictated by displacement....

so i'm betting your hunch will be right..... some things will end up with less gains from this point on...

you're right.... i will build it all stock bore and stock valves and stock throttle body .....before i go for the bigger stuff....

i've got i feeling i'm going to be sick of tearing it down by the time i'm all done

i

Yea , those fuel injection fittings can be a PITA!!!!!!! I really need to get my head back off and over to you John. And grab one of those 100mm pistons from ya .When the $$$ is available. I'm loving the info .

John, Hotcams doesn't make different stages other than a Stage 1 for the LTR. They make a stage 1, 2, and 3 for the RMZ, but the cam gear is different. I'd like to see those cam grinds tested on an LTR, though.

The 08 LTR is stronger out of the box than the 06-07's for sure. Before porting, my pump-gas 06 LTR made 48/33 @ KMS with a Yoshi pipe, open cone filter intake (no airbox), hotcam intake cam, and PC3. I haven't seen 08 LTR numbers on Kelly's dyno.

Once you get an 08 and an 06-07 built up (P&P, piston, exhaust), I'd expect the numbers should be pretty much the same from there on out.

Vader... i've been hoping to get your input on this.... many thanx....!

Excellent info as always John!

Thanks for all the effort it takes for the tedious, time consuming stages to post up info in this manner.
It's sooo cool to see the gains made at every step along the way!

Talk at ya later-

Kris

Thanks for posting the findings!!! Glad all the parts worked out for you so far!! Would have liked to see more out of the exhaust cam.... but i am glad you tested it... so now we know.

Im at my desk currently putting together a "Uncork your LTR package" now.... so members will be able to order it all in a kit.... ill have info posted soon.



we have added the Uncork your LTR450 post to LTRCentral- Click Here

glad to do it, kristopher..... thanx also to the KS3 Krew for getting the testing started with me...!

Ok, Ok, never mind with all this LTR stuff...wheres the info I've been waiting for Mr.Ziehl???

You know what I want to know..... testing complete on that or what??

many thanx for the hook-up on all the parts , Paul... :)

by all means use the dyno graphs i've made for your "almost FREE 51HP\35TQ LTR450" package....

and be sure to use the pic on how to cut the window in the airbox too....

you'll end up selling even more parts to the other brands of 450's who get their feelings hurt by this Low Budget LTR setup....

you funny bastage, Gar.....

if it makes you feel any better... the LTR is off the Dyno... and the TRX is strapped back to it... :)

i haven't spun any wrenches on it though.... :(

come on over and bring some of that pork roll for breakfast sandwiches.... and help me out....

bring your new collection of custom MASSIVE cams too

LOL.......OK cool.....I was getting antsy over here wondering the outcome.

Im going to bring you guys so much pork roll your going to need a cardiologist to roto router your arteries out!

King? Didn't you built up an LTR a while ago? How did that end up/compare to John's current build?



Woody

perfect!

gary bought an 06 in 06 and sold it in 06 too..... it never was completely finished.... :(

Woody,


I had John port the head, put in a set of crower camshafts, put in a higher compression big bore piston (forget the size...I want to say 98mm, stock is 95.5) had a couple exhaust systems (a LRD and a Rossier), and I made my own side mount pipe so I could really open up the intake area. Started making my own intake. Had both a power commander and another brand of fuel controller, I forgot the brand. When I did this build, there were really no performance parts out yet for this bike. The crower cams were the VERY FIRST after market cams available. I had the first actual set to try for Dan Crower and gave him feedback.

Anyhow, the Rossier pipe kicked the balls off the LRD pipe. I sold the bike to a guy down in Texas and when he got it, it still needed a fair amount of tuning. He took it to a dyno with an A/F monitor and dialed it in. The dyno operator said it was the best HP he had seen out of a 450 based machine yet on his dyno. I dont remember the numbers. They were realistic numbers. Nothing inflated. I want to say like 55/37 but I honestly dont remember. Keep in mind that is in 06.

Lost touch with the guy. I hated working on that bike though. Just too much stuff in the way for a guy who likes to rip into his engine every other weekend...lol One other thing I never liked about that machine was the really sloppy welds from the factory. Just horrible welding job everywhere. I hope they have improved that since 06. Other than that it was a nice bike.

nope Gary.... the welds still look like pained bubble gum wads....

gary...... thats what i thought about the ltr as well. to much stuff on it. just not clean looking to me. even though, they are sharp.

no sense in welds being that way on a quad these days. there's to many guys out there that can do it right.

clean welds are almost as pretty as chrome. lol but serious. they sure are pretty.

i am fortunate to work with some guys that are the best welders i have seen. you name it, they can weld it. and looks better than the prettiest factory welds.

one is gonna be doing some welding for me on my custom scrapper450r aluminum airbox for my 06 FCI that i'm gonna try.

im gonna put some pics up when done.

sorry to ramble

scrapper.... we'll have to dyno in your custom intake setup before this next hill climbing season

"and a HRC Kitted 06 & up TRX is a good runner for not a lot of $$...."

John where does a well jetted trx like you mentioned end up on your dyno for a point of reference?

john........ march 5th. it will be hittin the rollers.

i will post it up.

nice... :)

I believe around 46-47HP on his dyno. Maybe John can confirm.

do you know where i can get a bigger injector cant find one im also building a suzuki


http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=70899 link to my build

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=31748

Thats funny, I tried the link and it says the topic is out of date??

Well, Jeff Miller brought my old LTR discussion up from the dead from a couple years ago. Thought it was interesting that the bike made 49HP compared to your 51hp and it had a big bore increased compression piston, port work, a pipe, a set of crower cams, and all the little ad ons.

So I guess they did do some things through the last couple years to get them running better. Although Im not sure what dyno that bike was on and we know you really cant compare but I thought it was interesting.

The topic is in the engine section if you want to go visit it John. No pictures of some of the stuff I did like the side mounter pipe or intake mods. I believe that was in another thread somewhere.

The thing I'm most impressed with is not the HP, but the 35 lbs of Torque. Holy cow that's a crap ton of torque.