Because everyone asks, "How many paddles should i run?" or "What size rim should i run?" or all questions like these, i figured it would be good for some of us paddle gurus to put a thread together that a mod can stick that is a paddle tire guide.

In selecting a paddle tire, many things account to what you should buy.

But before we get into all of that, i want to explain one thing......V Paddles VS straight paddles.

The general consensus of people that go to the dunes and want a lightweight paddle, that hooks up and allows them to take off out of holes without digging holes of their own, cruise the bowls at top speeds and occasionally drag race.....is the straight paddle. You might hear, they do not turn easy or spin like the V paddles, but in general, a guy with a straight paddle just has to learn how to turn the straight paddles or spin cookies with them. Mostly all V paddle brands are heavy and worthless IMO. So this whole rant below will be talking about straight paddles. V paddles may be better for the ten year old daughter on the 250ex because this will allow her to turn easier, at the sacrifice of getting stuck more and not hooking up. Im sure you get the point, straight paddles are simply....the cats meow.

Going back to the top, there are many factors in selecting your paddle.

(In no particular order)

1) Tire size
2) Paddle Count
3) Rim Size
4) Paddle Height
5) Rim Width
6) Rim Weight/ Thickness
7) Swingarm Length
8) Weight of rider
9) Power of machine
10) Gearing
11) Paddle Brand
12) Special Cuts/Buffs

Disclaimer- All the below information is based on a straight paddle design and a Honda 450 based machine and therefore has no revelence to V paddle designs or smaller machines.

1) Probably one of the most commonly asked questions, Tire size. Ahh tire size. Well.....there are many types of tire sizes, but i think they can all be factored into two categories
A- Hillshooting Paddles B- Play paddles.

A-The hillshooter paddles are usually the 22 inch tall tires that are 10-11 inches wide or the 21x12 tire so common today. These make great drag racing and hillshooting tires giving you more ground clearance and most of the time these two paddle sizes have a round shape to the paddle which is very desirable in drag races. This is because a round paddle seems to bite more off the launch and baloon slightly at higher speeds making your top speed higher. These paddles usually require a lower gearing than stock. These paddles can also be a very versatile paddle for all conditions, they can dune and do everything the smaller paddles will with a little more work, but shine at the drag strip. It all depends on what you are looking for.
B- Play paddles are usually a 20x10 or 20x11 tire that is generally easier to dune and play around on. Depending on the tire carcass and rim size, these paddles can be shaped into a round profile like the above tires, but usually have a more flat paddle profile to them. This usually allows the rider to sit on top and do a little more spinning which is desirable in some locations. There are many more factors that go into how the tire reacts.

2) I would say this is the most often asked question of all,"How many paddles?"

First off i would like to establish there is usually a difference between the number of paddles the california/ Nevada duners choose VS us Oregon Duners. Usually up here in oregon we run about 2 paddles more. Not saying this is correct, just stating this is usually what happens.

How many paddles to put on your tire is mainly affected by the weight of the rider, the type of riding you do, and the power of the machine. A good start in oregon is an 8 paddle. Good start in cali is a 6 paddle.

The more paddles, the more you will wheelie off the bottom end, The lesser paddle count, the more you will spin off the bottom.

Imagine a paddle tire, with 16 paddles on a 22 inch tire, the paddles will be the only part of the tire touching the ground. There will be no sand contact between the area between the paddle and the sand. This causes the tire to float on top and spin equalling less traction. When 7 paddles are put on a 22 inch tire, this allows the tire carcass to sit on the sand and when the tire spins the paddle grabs the sand, usually equaling in more top end traction.

Review: More paddles- More bottom end launch traction
Less Paddles- More top end acceleration/Hook Up
Finding that perfect number seems to be a problem for most. keep reading for more tips on choosing the paddle count.

3) Rim size- The most underestimated factor in choosing a paddle

Paddles come in two common sizes 8in and 10 in.

8 Inch rim is a more drag type rim that allows the tire to swell more during acceleration and for the tire to flex more during takeoff. 8 Inch rims usually make a more rounded tire profile.
8 Inch rims are a bear to turn in soft sand. They want to bite instead of slide on top. Yes they can be turned on a dime, but requires a lot more work and practice and still will never sling around quite like a 10 inch rim.
10 inch rims are a better play size. They allow the tire to turn side to side fairly easy and more float on top compared to an 8 inch rim. They usually produce a flatter tire profile, and during drag racing tend to spin a lot more than an 8 inch rim.

4) Paddle height- The skat trak tire is about the only tire you can choose the paddle height on. I am not sure if you can choose padla brats without paying big bucks for totally custom tires.

Skat trak come in 3 general paddle configurations
Glider- Short paddle
Hauler- Taller paddle
Extreme- Same height as hauler just thicker at the base.

The gliders are only mentioned because they seem to be a good fat mans tire. They usually require 2-3 more paddles to have proper hook up but work well for fat guys. Also can make a very good drag tire for lightweights as well.

The hauler paddle is great for drag racing no doubt. They are tall enough to grab a lot of sand and thin enough at the base to flex when grabbing sand. This equals great traction.

The extremes are the same as the hauler, just thicker. Usually last longer and hold up a little better, but do not perform as well at the drags. They are dang close to the haulers, but the extremes just dont have the flex and you will find yourself lugging every once in a while if you are overpaddled with extremes.

5) Rim width

Very straight forward. The wider the rim, the flatter the tire, the skinnier the rim, the rounder the tire.

Pretty much explains itself. I have seen up to 10 inch wide rims and as little as 6 inch wide rims.

Again, the flatter will manuever better and the rounder will drag and climb better.

6) Rim thickness
Speaking in just plain ole douglas rims or ITP t-9 plain aluminum rims,
The .125 or blue labels are a drag racers tire. These will usually bend when jumped mediumly or hit against any obstacle.
The .160 or black labels are a happy medium
And the .190 or red labels are the thickest heaviest rim but usually by far the strongest.

7) Swingarm Length-Only added in because it can change the way paddles react.

Usually the longer the swingarm, the more the paddles spin because the weight of the bike is farther away from the tires. Just something to think about and factor in when choosing.

8) Weight of rider- Also changes way paddles react. Another thing to factor in.

Usually the heavier guys like the smaller paddle counts or gliders, the lightweights favor the more paddles or extremes/Haulers. Just for obvious reasons, more weight= More hook up= less paddle for best take off and vice versa.

9) Power of machine is simple.

On a stock like bike, you will want less paddle so you are not lugging down. The more power, the more paddles you can handle to a certain extent.

10) Gearing

Gearing should always be figured out once you buy the paddles.
BUT- the lower the gearing, the more you will spin you paddles.
The taller the gearing- the harder time you will have spinning a taller tire or a tire with more paddles unless you have the power of course

11) The two main paddle brands are

Skat Trak- A non radial tire (Usually cheap nobbie tire like kenda dominator) that is buffed down to a few plys and the paddles are vulcanized onto the tire. That is why most will say kenda or some other thing on the side. 2 ply Tire

Padla Brats- A molded tire that usually are light weight and a good tire for a molded tire. They make a good play tire but are not the best for drag. 4 Ply tire. Only offered in a 6 and 9 paddle

Both brands make great tires.
My preference is the Skat trak. I feel the brats are overpriced.

12) Both brands above can be specially cut or buffed to create a super light tire. This usually is only used for drag racing/ Hillshooting because the tire can easily pop.

Brats are shaven down and referred to as "comp Cut" and the skat traks are usually Buffed down another layer and reffered to as "Bead to bead buff"

These tires are very expensive and i would only reccomend this for strictly drag/ Hillshooter quads because of how easy they can pop. I wouldnt want a 450 dollar set of tires popping on my trying to go up a treeshot.JMO

OVERVIEW

If your a guy who likes to screw around and dune without caring about drag racing a 20x10x10 tire is for you. You pick the paddles.

If you like to drag some-A lot a 22x11x8 or 21x12x8 is the tire for you.

I dont think anyone on here can ever tell you what tire you will like the best. I just hope that this will help you better choose the tire you want.

-Kip

alot of good info for the newbe and even the seasoned guys

i would like to add a couple small things

brats are 4ply while skat trak are 2 ply
also brats only come 9 and 6 paddle

i wouldnt say gliders are for fat guys because alot of the FSA racers run them with their 130# jocky's so maybe they are best for fast guys.

otherwise thanks for all the effort posting this up, lots of info

so how would a bike with a dasa K&N and jetting do with 8 paddled haulers... would there not be enough power?

Read all of the above.

It depends on the rim size, the weight of rider, location of riding. Style of riding.

Many factors.

-Kip

Thanks for the info and taking the time to read mine. Just for everyone, hawk knows his stuff so the gliders must work well on a lot of bikes also.

-Kip

Good write up Kip.... lots of good info.

the most helpfull post ive read since ive been on this site, answered the question i asked in my topic the other day and then some. i am totally confident in knowing what i need now and wont regret buying something i didnt, thanks man......btw 8 paddle 21x12x8's it is lol i'll be draggin better in no time

I would like to add.....LOCATION plays a HUGE part.

See what the locals are running
A pdl that works VERY WELL for dragging in Little Sahara OK is considered a play tire here in Louisiana!

That is very true sheepless. Thanks!

I know there is a crapload to read there, but if you can get through it, you might find something useful.

-Kip

i see you are from sacramento, are you riding sand mt? if so 8's will be to much with the mods in your sig. i would (and do) run 6 paddle

Whats everyones opinions on brats..Are they worth the price and why do they jump from 6 to 9 paddle and how come I hardly ever see any 9 paddle brats?

Damn good job dude. This one should be pinned.

Doubt its good enough to be pinned, but thanks for all the comments guys. Someone hit up Greg and see what he thinks.

And r450er, the brats are supposed to be an awesome drag paddle. But i would take a ultralight hauler over them anyday.

They are also overpriced IMO.

-Kip

Looks like the mods think so; congratulations!

Thanks guys, i hope a lot of people get some good information out of this.

-Kip

Whats the difference between a Ultralight, Superlight Series, and Bead 2 Bead hauler? ..To me there all the same but diff names must mean something different.

Ultralights and Superlights are basically the same thing. It's where they take more rubber off than a standard buff skat that you would buy from any shop.

Bead to bead just means that they buff the sidewalls all the way to the bead. Bead to bead can also just be a standard buff, but it doesn't really take much weight off the tire. If weight savings are what you're after, UL's bead to bead are the way to go.

Actually, brats aren't the greatest drag paddle because they don't have a very good rollout. They work OK, but aren't the best if drag racing is what you do most. They do make a great dune paddle though for all around dune riding, probably one of the best. And, they are VERY light if comp cut.

Gotcha, Yes I want a strict drag paddle..I want a 21x12x8, 8 paddle extreme ultralight bead 2 bead..is that what I would say when I ordered them?

If you want strictly a "drag paddle", go with an 8 paddle hauler 22x11x8 UL, B2B, on 8x7 .125 wheels. That's assuming you have the HP for 8 paddles. And I would go with a hauler instead of an extreme.

Thanks bueller,

To the rest of you guys, can we try to keep this all paddle info instead of paddle setup questions.

Read through the starting post, and if you still are not sure, PM me or bueller and im sure we would be glad to answer your questions.

-Kip

Brats are one of the FINEST paddle tires you can buy....

however....they are not sold in every shop/store.... hence their lack of popularity...

and they can be quite pricey when comped/modded.....

and for those who do not remember.....there was a HUGE paddle tire shootout done by the magz back in 05....... and guess what..... it was the comp cut BRAT that won.....their 6 paddle was just slightly faster than their 9.....for this particular setup... but it was said that the 9 paddle was actually a bit quicker up the hills.....

the downside to the Brats is their limited size.... you have but ONE question to ask yourself.... do you want 6 or 9 paddles... that is it...cuzz they only come in 21x12x8 size....if you comp cut them (which is the primary reason for purchasing brats), plan on a slightly taller paddle.... 1" vs 7/8" stock....

the huge popularity of the Skats is simple.....you can have ANY size/design/count/stagger/weight, yada yada you so desire...... although you 'could' get the same with the Brats.... Joe 'can' and does alter these tires... from paddle height, to staggered paddles, to just about whatever you want.....I forgot what Joe told me...but they come with about a zillion paddles on them...and he cuts them down to the 6 or 9 count you see.....some like to stagger the paddles and yet others like to cut them down... to each their own.....

I know w/o a doubt that the rubber/construction of the Brat is superior to any other tire I have ever used.....or even heard about.....and NO paddle tire is lighter than a comp cut brat....not even ultralight bead/bead buffs...... .but, the wide variety of sizes/cuts/weights/paddles, etc... that Skat offers, cannot be matched..... all you have to do is determine what YOU want........and order away.... they can make any configuration you want....... maybe its faster....maybe not.... but they look awesome to have a custom paddle.....



one could argue or 'discuss' the proper paddle tire for each and every machine over and over and no one would or could ever win such argument....but this is a good thread to give those who are searching for paddles a good base to start.....other than that....you would have to go to the exact location where you plan on riding and start taking notes...... cuzz like mentioned above.... in My Humble Opinion...... LOCATION is the number ONE factor in determining paddle size...

I try not to give exact recommendations on paddles unless someone is asking specifically what works here in Ca... Pismo/Glamis/Dumont all seem to have about the same sand.....depending on time of year actually..... but it is a far cry different than Little Sahara or Oregon.....

at any rate..... good thread.....Greg