I have a 2007 TRX450ER and I just had a sparks 510 kit installed with stage three hotcam, ported and polished buy Johnny Hale with the exhaust 1mm bigger and HD spring kit with new values, Stock crab, Dyn Cdi, KN with lid removed, and that’s it. I races flat track and I can't keep the tires from spinning off the start and in the corners. Can someone tell me what I can do to get this power to the ground without spinning all the time? If you see any other ways i can get more out of my Quad let me know?

Lower Gearing, Different start techniques, Shorter swingarm, Let some air outa the tires......

-Kip

If your spinning the tires...I think you have the power!!!!

Throttle control is going to be your best buddy..... Higher gearing, weight balance & transfer, suspension set up, and tires are some other big things to think about!

Forgot suspension, like porter said, you can adjust the shock to where more of the weight of the bike is on the shock and rear end. This is by Loosening the rings and dropping your ride height. It will make your rear end lower, but a lot more of your weight will be on the rear end.

-Kip

I have a CRJ lowering kit front and back with Arms W+2 F+0 I sit at 54" in the front and 50 in the rear. Stock swing arm with Hosier 63/10/10 Flat track tires and 10/5 on front. The gearing is 14-36 I have 13,15 38,40 gears in the Garage. You tell me what gear should I run and that would help a lot. You said to loosen the rear shock ring right, when I do this my chain in real tight when am not sitting on it and just right when I am sitting on it. So last race I did tighten the rings down on the rear shock so the chain would not be as tight when the rear lefts off the ground. So I should loosen them back up? Thanks for all your help I’m using all the knowledge that I hear and maybe it will hook up.

FOR my riding style i would gear lower, For my weight i have always found lower gearing= Better hookup. In your situation You have enough power where you should be doing second gear starts with a higher gearing. To me, lower gearing has always allowed me to rap to the max and find the right seat position while launching in gear for minimal spin. I would try the 14-38 or 13-36. JMO

Also, I would loosen the shock ring all the way and just adjust your chain to compensate. I always adjust my chain so its perfect when im off the bike.

-Kip

I only ride the dunes and drag race so my advice may not be exactly what may work for your machine or riding style but I'll throw this out there.......I'll try and explain this the best I can and hopefully some sense can be made out of it...

I've always found that If I can't hook hard enough, on the launch especially, less tire pressure, a softer and/or lower rear end or more gearing helps out.

In my experience, Lower gearing (less teeth in the front and/or more in the rear) will break the tires loose even easier. The reason for this is whenever you put less gear to your motor you are "multiplying torque to the rear tires", per say. It is easier for the motor to spin the tires, but increases the ability for the motor to break the tires loose and decreases the ability for the motor to spin the tires fast. The result is decreased acceleration and speed because the landspeed is trying to play "catch-up" with the tires because they are spinning so rapidly.....

It is harder/takes longer for the landspeed to "catch up" to the tire speed because you have reduced tire speed with lower gearing. When you run more gear it increases tire SPEED but decreases tire SPIN because you are loading the motor harder so it will hook harder, SOONER in your pass...

OF COURSE, you can only compensate so much with gearing changes....and you can run too much gear, causing it to bog on the line and accelerate slower because it is loaded too much. Is can be a fine line, you may need more tire with more rollout (larger contact area)

Also, if your rear end sits lower, necessary weight transfer occurs more easily beacuse there is more weight over the rear tires. Same type of deal when you run a shorter swing arm.

GOOD LUCK!

You said try to start in second off the start right? I will have to try that on my own time because last time I did I fricked up and got put into the back of the pack. This kit has power for days, I have tred the 13-36 Wheel Spin plus I run out of gear on 1\2 track, but I'm going to try the 14-38 this weekend and this track is a short track maybe 1\8th mile. Do you have any idea's for small track I can try.

The 14-38 is the same as a 13-35, so you didnt really change much. However the 14-38 should be a good gear to run. I usually run a 14 all the time. A shorter swingarm would definitly help you a bunch, but dont go too short or you will be pulling the front tires off the ground all the time. If you have an adjustable axle, slide you wheels in farther (narrow the axle) that will help with sidebite. I think your biggest problem is throttle control. Practice your starts and get a feel for the motor. Sounds like you have plenty of power so dont mash the gas off the start or coming out of the turns. Also body position is key. Lean back a little farther and put more weight on the rear tires. Hope that helps.

Click to view attachmentThanks I will try all this over the weekend, I got the sprokets coming now and thanks for all your help.

Ok I tried the 14\38 Wheel spin. I tried 14/40 Ok but it the track is lose then it will not hook up. By next season I will have a shorter swing arm. How short should I go -1 or -2 in?

Do you thank it could be the tires?

What other idea's are out there to get this dam thing to hookup?

What are you running for tires and how much air? Also what is your ride height set at and what are your shocks like? Hard, soft, rebound, compression?

I would think you would need to gear pretty high to keep the wheels from spinning with all the additional tq that kit should be giving you. I would try a 15 front and maybe the 38 rear. But then again you said it feels better with 14/40 over 14/38.

Hoosier 63/10/10

Stock Swing Arm
Steering Dampener
Front 54”
Rear 50”


Rr 10 psi
Lr 9

Lf 7
Lr 10

How do I check the ride height?
Shocks are stock
Rear is ring is loosened all the way.
Front is well I will check this and get back with you! What should they be set at?


I check with the gearing calculator and it has the 15\38 running higher than the 14\40 should I try that gear jebbin12?

I have never been a believer in gearing affecting traction like this. I think you have other setup problems beside the gearing.
Tire pressures sound about right. I will run like 10psi in all four tires even for circle track. Maybe try raising your lf a lil. Try 10 in the fronts and 9 in the rears. Also measure the roll out on your tires. You probably dont want more than a half in. of stagger in the rear.


Ride height is how far the frame sits from the ground. Measure from the front of the flat part on the frame and then right behind the rear pegs. Your front should be about a half inch higher than the rear.

Adjust the preload on the shock to raise or lower the quad as needed. If your just doing FT the stiffin the compression on your right front a lil more than the lf. Soften the compression on the rear for a slick track.

If you took all the preload off your rear shock I could see that being a problem with traction.
I have never circle track raced but in the sand and on the drag strips we want our rear to squat very little to keep the rear tires in contant and not let them hop.
Would think the same would apply to circle track racing...

Foot pegs 5" maybe 4 7\8

Flat frame rails 5" 1\8 may 1\4

Try raising it up a bit...You usually want to go higher for a slick track. Try maybe 5 3/4" in the front and 5" in the rear. It is hard to say without looking at your bike. Maybe someone that knows what they are doing and lives near you could help you out. Most racers at the track would be willing to give you some pointers. Better yet come to our race in Quincy, IL on the 1st and I will help you set your bike up before hand

Also how is the tread on your tires? Are they shot? They do seem rather large but that shouldnt affect traction. How much do you weigh? That will help in knowing how short of a swinger you need.

I weigh about 185 to 195lb

Tires are good will they where before the race I will have more coming. If everything goes right I will be there at the track on the first. I will not know until it comes closer. I own a roofing company and the weather is changing on us and we work when ever we can. As long as the weather holds out for us then we should be ready for a race on the 1st.

I'm just new to this sport, I raced flat track years ago on go-carts, then last year I went to flat track quads. Last year I was running a 460ex the works but I could have done a little more head work a cam, but it was to slow. I got this Trx450r 2007 for my birthday last year. I had a 490 kit on it and I had the hole shot every race. I was not use to the power that the 510kit gave me. I did find some Newbie mistakes when I came home from the track. Some loose bolts on the sway Bar so I know the last race it was not working right. Anther problem I thank I'm having is trying too many different things at the same time before I know weather one or the anther worked or not. Now I know it is in the setup somewhere just trying to find where it is and learn how to fix all traction problems.

Can yo get me that web address

I find this one but don't say a thing about 11/1/08 race

http://www.racefan.com/showtrack.asp?id=709

You might want to try setting everything back up to nuetral and then take baby steps from there.

There isnt anything on the web about the race. I posted a thread in the ft/tt section that has all the info. Let me know if you need to know anything else and I will find out for you. This is a tt race so you will want to set everything back up to nuetral anyway.

Alright I thank I found the problem!

The front shocks where all the way lose no Compression on the spring.
Every time I went into the corner it would drop hard up front into the corners. I thank after that happened all the weight was taken off the back tires and letting them spin. I adjusted the shocks and now the ride height is:
4 3/4 Rear
5 3/4 front

Also the whole quad fells diffrent up front.

Dose this sound right now.

Not realy you need your quad to squat in the rear so all the weight is Transferred to the rear tires. On sand you have room for hop because your on lose sand, dirt works a little different.

um you could just feather the clucth off the line. stop the spin and stop the wheelies

And stop the power...99% of the time you will not pull a holeshot feathering the clutch in TT or ST.

That makes since about your springs. You dont want it to dive hard when going into the corner. Try it out and let us know if that does the trick.

the track i run here is hard clay and it gets slick at times when they water it good. its just short of a 1/4" oval.

we run our rear tires low in air pressure. i tried 10lbs rear and i was all over the place. then i drop it down to 4rr and 5lr and i was hooking all night long. some ppl have the rear tires so low there all most to low. ive seen ppl with the rr all most flat. i also seen ppl having the lr so low when they come out of a turn there lr rim is damn near on the track, using all of the tire, lol.

i dont have the bb kit/ power as you do but i hook good every where with that combo, i also run 13/38, 3rd gear the whole time. when im about 30' from the turn entrance i just started to hit the limiter on the motor.

i also raced another place that is a true 1/4 mile oval and noticed the 13/38 is to short for the streights. if i didnt strip the pinch bolt head when i was trying to go to a 14/38 combo at the track i might have placed better there, lol. i was hitting the limiter about 2/3rds down the streight and 4th was to much coming out of the turns.


any how, just some stuff i noticed from my first year racing flat track. each place is different and you have to be read to change it up at the track.

I will let you know asap.\\


This winter I will Finsh up somethings and i will Show you everything I did to my Project Build.

Hey Jebbin12
Johnny Hale said I should go with a 14/36, he siad I would have less wheel spin in this true. I went with a 14/38 at the track I felt like I had more wheel spin. 14/40 is where am at.

You will just have to try it...That is what this sport is about. Guess and check.


Also the tire thing deerchopper is talking about, if it works for you more power to ya. No way in hell I would do that though. To much of a risk popping off the bead and at that kind of speed. No thanks. Also the new hoosiers are the opposite. The more air you put in them the better they grip. I was told no less than 12psi in them.

You know I had that same felling, the more air the better they hook. Yeah You can't win a race on a flat tire!

Anyway I tried the 14\36 yesturday had less wheel spin but still would not hook up. The track is very little like 1\8 mile and I'm getting beat by a 400Ex I thank it is stocked. But I had a 460ex and there good on small tracks and that is it.

I'll just have to see if I can meet up with you this weekend. Not for sure if I'm understanding the sway arm setup. Which side do you rise to get the best hookup on a flat track? How do you set it for TT?


Jebbin12
I WILL BE THERE SATURDAY AS OF NOW.
any changes I will post.
Do you a an address for the race, and do you have a cell phone number I can call if we get lost or something!

If a Mod or Admin see's this.....

Can this thread be moved to the correct section? There have been lots of threads in this section that do not belong here but no one cleans them up anymore.

Kinda sucks for those of us that took the time to create a rebuild thread. Lot's of nice builds being lost in this section....

Here she is:

Sorry I did not get pics druing the Process but I have had so much going on with my business and family I did have time to get the building pics.


Heres what I started with:




Here she is now: