EDIT...photobucket dyno chart addition



another day back at the dyno guys...and since we all know im a 300lb rider with a near full weight bike i have nothing to hide from ya all...and therefor will always share my results with you guys in the interest of learning and making these tech sites a better place to be...


OKAY...day started off way hotter than a couple weeks back which had me nervous that jetting might be a bizniggle...but i correct a few things from last time and i knew in my heart i could nail 60 this time with no changes other than a couple little things i noticed...unfortunately im a dumbass and lazy and still have the same damn spark plug in there that has been in for a year...and i did not change my oil from memorial weekend...but...i will say that rotella T holds up pretty good as the oil was still clear and looked great




FIrst up i dynoed with my same ole modded ESR ( i did myself...i dont know if mixxer is better at it...but it passed his inspection....i managed to pull a best of 60.0 horse and i broke 36 lb feet of torque again..but on the one run i copied i was a 59.7...so it was good news out of the gate to hit 60 on the existing setup like i predicted before


NEXT UP

FCI...the first FCI i put on was the one without the insert...(insert is ablack piece of plastic that reduces the volume of the intake to creat more airspeed and is closer in volume to the the ESR)
my bike HATED THAT intake...i had A/F readings ALL OVER THE PLace...and it point blank lost horsepower EVeryWHERe...i tried 3 different jett changes and the harmonics and intake speed were just all off...

after that

i tried the FCI intake that does have the insert...i had a feeling it would work better and so did garret ( i was on the phone with both mixxer and garrett multiple times today to give updates and to get any advises and put our heads together on what would or would not work)

the FCi with the insert right of the bat was pulling great A/F ratios...and was very clean through the band like my ESR was...

i knew there was some potential now so i really got to tuning and even cut a 1/4 inch off the carb side of the intake (which got my best results!)

the peak horsepowers between the two intakes where VERY close....60.3 out of the FCI and 60.0 out of the ESR...im sure it could have gone either way had i spent the whole day tuning both out to the max....HOWEVER...the real story here goes to the FCI making a buttload better torque quickly in the power band and holding it to the peak....i gained over a horse most of the band...and in some gases more than a horse as well as torque...peak torque was 37.3 which is not to shabby for a 478 yfz...

this just goes to show how important it is to test mulitple variables and how even a 1/4 can make a difference at times...and if you have a dyno local to you you may just be missing out on a bunch of power if your not getting the facts with a good A/F reading


end of the day prooved that the modded ESRs rock! they are hella cheap and make great power
but...if you can afford a couple hundred bucks the FCI may just proove to be even better...quality is top notch...i have a wierd situation with mine cuz my bell on my carb is far larger than normal...but with some fine tuning and a little bit extra customization my FCI will be here to stay and i have a modded ESR up for sale....i really like the economical aspect of the ESR...but unfortunately our YFZs have a tendancy to rub through the outerwears of the ESR and with time that could be detrimental to the livlihood of the engine...

AND I WANNA MAKE ONE THING VERY CLEAR

thoughout the day mixxer (please dont turn my thread into a bash fest or i wont share anymore) but john was all for my FCI testing and was bummed the first go around when i didnt get gains and the first intake sucked...and he was VERY happy for me when the results changed with the second filter...so if you think he is anti FCI its just not the case....HE as well as GARRET both have and had the attitude of compare and run what works best...and garret did not freak either when his first tube sucked donkey balls...he was calm as well and just wanted me to be happy and get the results i wanted...garret would have been A O K if the ESR pulled better...and mixxer was A O K with the FCI ending up being the better fit for my motor so lets all please not even go there on this thread

thanks!

sredrum...i got there first buddy! hehe but i hope your at or above me really fast cuz you da man


thanks obviously to VENOM and their badddasss headwork
thanks to KBR as always
thanks to Chris (sredrum) and his great carbwork
and now thanks to garret at FCI for a great product in their intakes

we can all get along and play nicely...and make horsepower in the process

oh yea...and i got hotcams and a pulsecharger LOL...booooyahhh! i bet i hit 70 with some webs and a dragpipe ...just kidding...nobody take that the wrong way...just a joke to ease the tension of all the bickering lately...to each there own


first dyno graph 5 runs from the day....FCi intake with insert...just wanted to show it was repeatable
second dyno graph FCi shortened with INsert Vs esr
third dyno graph FCIs best run of the day
fourth dyno graph ESRs best run of the day

and i realize the A/Fs are not matched...but lets face it...i dont have the time for that much fine tuning...and they are different so they will never be the exact same...

6 or more jet changes today...and multiple intake changes...and im ready to go ride now

edit...oh yea...gas...91 octane with kemco oils octane booster...no u4 or u2...just mix my own gas at home...wanna try the u2 some day for giggles or even methanol....but i hate spending so much money on gas

fci vs esr

fci

esr

what was the number of your main jet for the fci intake?? best run size???

I am building a very simular engine combo and I am very interesed in your jetting !

if memory serves me proper the 190 mains pulled the best runs on both ESR and FCI...but i didnt have time to "fine tune" for maximum powers...

i know the 195s pulled rich on both intakes

and the 185s pulled a touch lean today...

keep in mind im up at 4500 to 5000 feet

also...pulsecharger may or may not have an affect on these jetting numbers...some motors the PCs pulled lower mains than most pipes...but once you get into the full mod motors its just hard to know whats what other than what the dyno tells ya

Hey JJ.....good job....and congrats...

on the A/F meter..... it looks as though the ESR pulled a bit fat compared to the FCI..... was this after jetting....or do you think the FCI intake merely pulls slightly leaner than the ESR......?

on a side note.....

John ... or anyone for that matter..... have ya'll experimented with shortening the ESR intake on an 06/07machine? I am afraid to cut anything off w/o a dyno handy.......just curious......


Greg

well...I only had soo much time to work with here...so i wasnt shooting for perfection....just wanted to get real close....my goal for the day was to break 60 with the ESR before i started with the FCI and once i was there i started testing the FCI...my curves on the ESR almost matched perfectly the best runs out of the 44 from a few weeks ago so i know that the curve was where it needed to be for comparisons purposes...after that i attacked THe FCI...and like i said...one of the tubes FLAT OUT SUCKED...but the other was great and right from the getgo the torque was up...so i spent a little more time on the FCis tuning... really its like a 3 horse gain throughout the majority of power band with the insert version...with the none insert A/F was going nutz all over the place...and i lost as much as 10 horse up top cuz it was un tunable with my setup...just showing how different pipes will react to different intakes and cams and headwork etc...IMO it all starts with the head...good headwork is key to making a good spread of power and having a decent A/F throughout the powerband...after that everything before and after the head will make make or break the motor....ONE little component could have completely killed this motor and if i wasnt on the dyno i may have never even known it was all crappy like that cuz seat of the pants once you get past 50 horse is VERY difficult to judge

i slept good last night knowing i wasnt left 3/10ths short again LOL

thanks so much for all the testing...and especially all the sharing of info Jason....

side note... i thought jason told me he had 3 different versions of the the FCI intake to test.... maybe it was 3 intakes all together??

about a year ago terseJr. did a big yfz intake test on his highly modded stock bore machine....in his testing the FCI without any insert performed much better than the version with an insert...something like 3HP or more difference...

intake tuning is a super important, yet mostly overlooked part of engine building.... i keep lots of intake\ filter assy's on hand to do some quick tuning checks when dialing a combo in...

every different engine combo .... especially pipe and cam dependant.... will work best with a differnt intake setup....AND require different jetting too....

the only way to know what works best intake and jetting-wise...is to test & tune to your engine on a dyno with A\FR capability.... you could have a host of good engine components that don't put out anywhere near peak potential if you don't tune it all in...

nice work jason!!

stop calling it a 478!!!.... it's a Venom 480 kit....lol...

60hp and 37ft lbs is a seriously stout 480!!

by all means cut the intake....

i had originally cut mine by half of the available length from filter to billet mount.....

my last round of testing i had used a full length ESR for comparison and it lost about 1.5HP everywhere to my shortened version....

then i cut my already shortened one down to 1/2" longer than the billet mount...as short as it could go....and the power curve went up to the best point so far....

Greg, since your machine and mine are almost identical twins...the info should work the same for your setup..

these were the runs:

Click to view attachment

haha....well mix...60 horse out of a 478 is good stuff....out of a 480 though we may just be falling behing a touch LOL

just messing with ya...ive always kinda been the type to call chit by its true displacement...but you made the piston so ill call it whatever ya want buddy

RIDE REPORT

had a nice weekend in the dunes...i will say this...i feel like a big panzy now cuz i have been SOOO sore after the last couple trips and riding this thing....it is far more fatigueing than the ole stockbore bike was....its a great problem to have but it still makes me feel like a sally LOL

bike was quick....lost to one person...and that was a K&T built banshee that ran pretty darn hard and had the swinger and CPIs and all the horsepower making goodies...but i will never complain loosing to one of them...the typical fast 450s where not trolling around on sunday....but all the 450s &700s i did get to race it was pretty easy to leave em in the dust!

had a great weekend...it was a guys trip and left the girl at home so we got plenty drunk sat night after my starter button and shifter broke yeah thats right...i had to use a valvestem puller to start my bike...and we zip tied an allen wrench to the shifter so i had something for my foot to grab onto LOL that made it very difficult to shift the rest of the weekend and i felt like white trash LOL...but hey...its better than having motor problems right?

i finally remembered why i thought you had 3 versions of the FCI intake to test with....


you mentioned the large \ stufferless version that worked so well on tersejr's machine......

and a version with a large volume stuffer\insert....

i thought this meant a larger stuffer than what usually comes standard on the FCI's..... so i thought you also had a regular production vrsion to test in addition to those 2....

was the stuffer version a production model??... or does it have a bigger insert than production??

just two versions...one just in open original form...and the other with the "stuffed" black inserted piece that reduced the volume...

that was it...the first one was just the open normal version and that is when i called you pissed that i couldnt get it to Jet out....

the version with the insert works great though...as ive mentioned a hundred times now LOL

mixx...how you like my custom shifter?

jason... you should market that unique shifter design of yours!!

the FCI comes with the black stuffer in as original equipment.....

the open version is the same one they sent to tersejr to test with...on his stock bore machine the open one made more power than the stuffer version... a lot more.... the open version made great power but the stuffed version made the least power in a shootout of 4~5 intakes.... it all comes down to needing to test on a dyno for each individual build to see what intake works best.... if the goal is more power anyways...

on another note...

jason...since you are a frequent flyer on yamaha forums....

could you do me a favor .... for powerband comparisons VS component selection... could you copy and post all the other 480 bore kitted yfz's that make 60+hp into this thread??!!

thanks!

JJ......I have a cure for all those issues.....w/o the use of Zip Ties......











































Buy a HONDA...lol


just messing with ya......

ummmm...havent found em...so if they are out there and im sure they are they are just not sharing their results...i do recall way back when some stuff off of the superflow dynos...but never on the dynojet...

the 4 480s i know of that info was shared on where

cpc's
el stinko
sredrum
& mine

the others out their either dont share cuz they dont wanna start a riot...or cuz they dont exist...im gonna guess they are out there and they just hide their results LOL

Kenz did have a 517 motor posted that was pretty kool...had like 60 horse but 40lbs of torque and a big spread of torque...but thats a whole different game than our short stroke 480s...id love to have my yami make 40lbs of torque...itd be like a raptors torque mated to a yfzs over rev LOL that would be NICE!

but...the only downside to that motor is i think it runs like an 8 mil crank or something..and machine casing etc required...mines all drop in crap so im happy

now finish them damn pipes so i can try and proove or disproove some theories in my head LOL

jason... if you have the time...

could you re-post some of your graphs? when the org did some housekeeping to open up some site bandwidth.... some of the graphs i would like to see were deleted....

sure...here you go


FCI intake with black insert
Sredrum bored Sudco carb 43mil (started as a 41 NOT the factory yfz carb)
Venom head with +1 Kibblewhites
Hotcams (BOTH)
98 mil piston 14.25-1 on a Oem Wr rod (478cc displacement)
Pulsecharger exhaust with the stuffer thingy and the core out
-6 flywheel
all things where matched together to not have any hiccups in power

dynoed on TT tires

for 2008 will be a 501 at some point...just depends on funds and when i can finish up this 750

man I wish I could see this graph I've had no internet for a week been on my phone if some 1 has time tell me what thw Hp n TQ is at peek and then at 8000 rpms

thanks

a lot of stuff been deleted from here graph n pic wise I can't see a lot of stuff and I haven't even been here that long

Oh merry cristmas jonesy and a happy new year

At 8000.........56HP......37TQ
Peak.............60.3HP...37.3TQ

Thank u thank u.

mERRY xMAS To yOU Too!!!!

5.0K 29/32
5.5K 34/33
6.5K 40/36
7.0K 45/37
7.5K 50/37
8.0K 53/37
8.5K 56/36
9.0K 59/34
9.5K 60/33
10.0K 60/31
10.5K 58/29

Its close but probably not perfect...

just draw to straight lines and youve got it

I find it funny that you are digging this old stuff up! Look at me, look at me!


Hurry go get a bunch more and bring them to the top...............LOL

mark... you know full well i'm working on lots of yfz stuff at this time... and when i went to look for some of jason's old runs for comparison i noticed they were off the board.....

i don't see where your own "look at me" derogatory post in this thread is in any way appropriate....

if i pull up yfz threads to go with the testing i am currently working on, how is that in any way hurting you enough that you feel the need to jump into my own forum section and be an assho!e??

MARK...I STARTED THIS THREAD NOT MIXXER. If graphs dissapeared is it not a fair request to see them again? Im sure some day the same will happen with your thread...Im happy with my results as you are with yours...but lets not try and created drama in another thread...yours is already gone astray enough....

Yamaha forever !

Your right guys, I'm sorry. I did it out of anger and I won't do it again.


Have a great New Years!

same too you!

get out there and tear up some tires!

2 b pinned

oH DAMN...i got pinned...i feel special...i will go ahead and post up a photobucket on the first post for ya john of the original dyno graph

actually i dont know how special i feel since there are like over 10 pinned LOL but nevertheless rockon!

you funny bastage, Mr. Jones....!