thats right some guy on www.z400central.com can not believe what we're doing to get my z jetted .he even called me a lier.
it would seam he knows more about whats going on then i do and i was there. I'm not even doing the work , I'm just watching and reporting whats going on .
so tell me whats so far out of line.
my latest to date mods include 12to1piston stock bore, port&polished, hot cams stg 1, open air box UNI filter, full yosh pipe with the spark arrester removed,dynotek cdi, DJ needle 4th grove,#25 air jet, stock carb.
the problem that were running in to is finding the right main jet. we tryed a 175, biggest we could get our hands on, but the plug said to lean ,we ran a #48 drill bit through it but the plug still shows lean.
so we ordered 3 sizes bigger to try tomorrow.
yeah the #48 drill through the jet was not exactly a science but we had nothing to lose.
as it is the hp looks like its topped out but we've got some tinkering to do .
did not mixxer say that if we use dyno tires instead of the knobbys we would pick up 3 hp. well hooray for my side I'm well over 40 hp with a Z400
with the spark arrester in ,the best main seams to be a 165. but when we pulled out the spark arrester the bottom end tork went up 5 foot pounds with a very striate line hp line up to 39 hp @ rw. as it is I'd rather keep the tork and give up a hp on top,well to a point that is.
if you dont like it call snyder's power sports and ask them your self 989 773 5024
Full Version: wow did i ever stirrer up a hornets nest
Hey, I'll tell you again on here, buddy. I know you're not making that kind of power on the simple mods you have - on that engine. I've done alot of work on that engine, and I know what it takes to get to that 40Hp-level. You're not there.
You didn't know I was here, either... Did you?
I'll tell you again, here - your jetting is too rich, in all fuel circuits.
You didn't know I was here, either... Did you?
I'll tell you again, here - your jetting is too rich, in all fuel circuits.
You can't always rely on plugs to tell you how your jetting is bro, it's really tough some times... best bet is to track down an Air fuel sensor on a dyno...
free bump as well.
good luck.
free bump as well.
good luck.
Hey Normal,
Guess your 76 posts just suck here too huh? Do a search under what mixxer's porting did to my head, and you'll see my graphs, with mixxers replys.
Guess your 76 posts just suck here too huh? Do a search under what mixxer's porting did to my head, and you'll see my graphs, with mixxers replys.
Look at the posts in the NO BS section.
QUOTE(ElDuner @ Jan 25 2007, 02:02 AM) [snapback]330526[/snapback]
QUOTE(NormalZ @ Jan 24 2007, 10:18 PM) [snapback]330514[/snapback]
Hey, I'll tell you again on here, buddy. I know you're not making that kind of power on the simple mods you have - on that engine. I've done alot of work on that engine, and I know what it takes to get to that 40Hp-level. You're not there.
You didn't know I was here, either... Did you?
I'll tell you again, here - your jetting is too rich, in all fuel circuits.
You didn't know I was here, either... Did you?
I'll tell you again, here - your jetting is too rich, in all fuel circuits.
Tuff guy eh… you didn’t know I was here …. DID YOU!? lol
Alright now Randy Savage...time to offer up that couch in your sig....hehe
Save your breath Tom.
Some people only hear what they want to and disregard everything else.
Some people only hear what they want to and disregard everything else.
QUOTE(quadking450r @ Jan 25 2007, 02:18 AM) [snapback]330515[/snapback]
You can't always rely on plugs to tell you how your jetting is bro, it's really tough some times... best bet is to track down an Air fuel sensor on a dyno...
free bump as well.
good luck.
free bump as well.
good luck.
yes i totally agree with you . when i took my z in to the shop were it is now i was told ,because i asked , that he would be getting a new A F and that he was sure it would be in by the time they had my z back together. yeah , well do do happens and its not there yet.
do you think that just maybe them guys might know what there doing ? all I've done is report what they have done so far. do you think that just maybe some one some were might of had a similar experience that i have had? really sir I'm not that unique. are you telling me that you know and have done every thing under the sun and theres nothing new to learn.
BTY what kind of hp do you think it should have? i know were it was with the bolt on stuff ,pipe and jetting and the like , is it really that odd that i could get 8 hp with the mods that have been done to the inside of the engine?
I have a Z400 and so does my brother, we do all our own work on them. I think with the mods you have you should be right at 40hp or a little above at least. The guy thats calling you out on it cause "HE KNOWS HOW HARD IT IS TO GET THAT KIND OF POWER OUT OF THAT ENGINE" must have his Id10t card up to date cause he cant know what he is doing. Just ignore the idiot and go on about your business.
I beileve you with a good port and polish and a good piston you will have at least 40hp....add the other hot cam and I bet you will see another couple of ponies out of it. Why are you only running the stage 1 setup anyway?
I beileve you with a good port and polish and a good piston you will have at least 40hp....add the other hot cam and I bet you will see another couple of ponies out of it. Why are you only running the stage 1 setup anyway?
QUOTE(TRX450rlude @ Jan 25 2007, 06:58 AM) [snapback]330569[/snapback]
I have a Z400 and so does my brother, we do all our own work on them. I think with the mods you have you should be right at 40hp or a little above at least. The guy thats calling you out on it cause "HE KNOWS HOW HARD IT IS TO GET THAT KIND OF POWER OUT OF THAT ENGINE" must have his Id10t card up to date cause he cant know what he is doing. Just ignore the idiot and go on about your business.
I beileve you with a good port and polish and a good piston you will have at least 40hp....add the other hot cam and I bet you will see another couple of ponies out of it. Why are you only running the stage 1 setup anyway?
I beileve you with a good port and polish and a good piston you will have at least 40hp....add the other hot cam and I bet you will see another couple of ponies out of it. Why are you only running the stage 1 setup anyway?
Hey man, that's a low compression piston for that bike - you make make higher compression just with a gasket swap on it.
He's got an exhaust, and airfilter, no lid on the airbox, a low compression piston setup, Hotcams and a Dyna. HIs head is either ported or not - I think that's a lie. He's on here saying it's not done, and on the other board saying it's done...
At any rate, that's not a 40Hp combo, right there. Mix hit the magic 40Hp on a stock bore Z, but that thing was B A D. This combo this guy has isn't that... It's that simple...
I have done quite a few z400's and i own a drz400s enduro which is basically the same.
on all the quads we use a 25 pilot (bikes 22.5)
on the main with the dyno jet we use the 165
on the dirt bikes we use the factory 165 to match the carb which is bigger than the dj 165 (jd jet kit not the dj!!!!)
if you want ok performance use dyno jet!!!!
if you want a little more use the jd (james dean) search his name and call him, he will give you all the info you need and is there with a/f or dyno readings when you buy his kit
as far as drilling the main, stop!!!! throw the dyno jet kit in the trash, buy the jd kit which has 2 needles to dial in your bike, and use a factory jet sized 165 for starters which is prob larger than the 165 dyno jet. you can then go up from there if needed for $5 dollars each from the local motorcycle shop
re-cap: dyno jet = junk jd (james dean) = good
later, matt
on all the quads we use a 25 pilot (bikes 22.5)
on the main with the dyno jet we use the 165
on the dirt bikes we use the factory 165 to match the carb which is bigger than the dj 165 (jd jet kit not the dj!!!!)
if you want ok performance use dyno jet!!!!
if you want a little more use the jd (james dean) search his name and call him, he will give you all the info you need and is there with a/f or dyno readings when you buy his kit
as far as drilling the main, stop!!!! throw the dyno jet kit in the trash, buy the jd kit which has 2 needles to dial in your bike, and use a factory jet sized 165 for starters which is prob larger than the 165 dyno jet. you can then go up from there if needed for $5 dollars each from the local motorcycle shop
re-cap: dyno jet = junk jd (james dean) = good
later, matt
this is how my z 400 ran on the dyno today
Hey NORMALZ,
Look at that graph. It's there in black and white (actually red and blue). My wife can read this graph, and wonders why you can't. If you still have a problem with it, maybe you should go flip burgers instead of working on quads. Pretty easy to see it here. This is no B.S.
If you want that kind of CHIT, go back to your lame ass z400 site and stay there.
Look at that graph. It's there in black and white (actually red and blue). My wife can read this graph, and wonders why you can't. If you still have a problem with it, maybe you should go flip burgers instead of working on quads. Pretty easy to see it here. This is no B.S.
If you want that kind of CHIT, go back to your lame ass z400 site and stay there.
this graph is an uncorked pipe , no spark arrester at all. the other pic has a simple screen spark arrester , 175 main jet ,
sh it talkers leave, this is a tech post, we don't need it. Your arguements over normal, no need to keep on it.
Best bet is like said, start at 165 and work towards what feels better... My pipe came with a 165, the stock was a 120, the 165 was 10 to small... went to a 175, spot on.... try emailing the pipe company... better yet, ask the guy who did your P & P he should know or be able to estimate.... if he's been around enough & knows what he's doing, he should know..gif)
Best bet is like said, start at 165 and work towards what feels better... My pipe came with a 165, the stock was a 120, the 165 was 10 to small... went to a 175, spot on.... try emailing the pipe company... better yet, ask the guy who did your P & P he should know or be able to estimate.... if he's been around enough & knows what he's doing, he should know.
I don't talk trash, when i have the proof to back it up. That graph was a 175 main, and that is where it runs the best, and he's happy with it. Actual graphs prove everything. There shouldn't be any more trash talking with the proof in front of everyone.
Here was my response on the other side...
QUOTE(NormalZ @ Jan 25 2007, 04:18 PM) [snapback]572091[/snapback]
Hmmm... Interesting. I don't think there's any way I'll be eating any crow, though, and certainly not any feathers.
It's all laid out, simple... Nice chit-talking on the ORG, too, by the way. I see you have your Internet Balls on over there. I'll tell you now, there will be no Board-Wars going on between the two sites, so let's get that out of the way now.
Here's where it's at: Raistlin, your boy cataway came on here and started talking some pretty mad chit and making some pretty big claims, and some people offered advice. That starts at Post #1 in this thread. His jetting was whacked, and whacked badly. When people offered him advice on the jetting problem, he decided he mouth off. That's when this started...
It's later discovered that you two don't know the first thing about reading a plug chop - and you both proved that with the comments made. Based on that bad plug chop reading, you started going crazy with jetting. Things only go downhill from there, because you have no baseline to jet from, and no solid idea on how to do a proper plug chop in the first place.
Next... Mixxer is one hell of a tuner. He did some damn fine work with Zonker, and he actually got a stockbore 398cc machine to 40Hp - he's the first guy to do that. He built one badass Z motor, too, in order to do that, and he was running it on a DynoJet ATV/Kart dyno, with an accurate A/Fr from it, Standard correction factor, tuned it to perfection, and he ported the hell out of that head (in addition to the host of other parts on it). He went to 14:1 compression to achieve that 40Hp. He really knows how to get a Z there, and he did it...
You guys are running low compression (12:1), as I stated on the ORG. You only have a few parts on that motor - new style Hotcams, Dyna CDI, full pipe and typical airbox mods... that's it. You still have a stock Mikuni BSR CV carb that isn't tuned properly. Is the head ported or not? You guys are saying different things on the ORG - cataway, you said it wasn't ported. Then you both say it is ported. cataway says he'll get it ported. Whatever - is the thing ported or not? If it is ported, that's one hell of a port job, to bring a stockbore, low compression motor to a true 40Hp. I'm sure mixxer would love to talk to the people that ported that head...
Which leads to another question - is that 40Hp you pulled on the Dynomite dyno still going to pull 40Hp on most other dynos? I don't know about that - really don't know... It sure as hell sounds like it's reading incredibly high, considering the mods (or lack of mods) you have on that motor.
Now, your 450R. You somehow brought the dynographs of your 450R into this - that has nothing to do with it, at all. You're still trying to drag it into an argument, like it means something. That's apples and oranges, man, and it has nothing to do with this. One thing does come to mind, though - if you're getting such a mild-mod Z to reach 40Hp on that dyno, what does that say about the numbers you keep pushing for your 450R? Are they really accurate? I saw the before and after, and that's damn nice - that's what really counts. Good gains! But are those peak numbers right on the money? I don't think they are on the Z - I really don't.
I'm also not offended in the least that a stockbore Z could reach 40Hp - I really don't care, but I think it's cool! I was PMing John left and right before, during, and after that build, and I was hyped that he hit that mark. Am I jealous that someone hit 40Hp with a stockbore? Hell no, I'm not. I just don't think that number is accurate, compared to the mods (or lack of mods) done to that motor. If it was truly done, then that port work is amazing, because that's what is giving it to cataway - because the meager list of other things won't take a Z to 40Hp.
Only one other thing - I've been a member of the ORG for a long time now. I don't come into that place and talk a bunch of smack - never have, never will. I go there for the extreme technical knowledge on that site. THere are a whole BUNCH of really smsart people on that place, and they're damn fun. When I have something to say, I say it there. If I don't have something to say, I read. Post count doesn't mean squat. When I referred to you as "Mister One Post," that was meant not at how many you have, but the fact that you joined this site just to chime in about your buddy (and that first one was right here in this thread). You showed up just to get into an argument, and try to prove a point, and you registered just to fight. Some reason to join a site.
So, is the head ported or not?...
It's all laid out, simple... Nice chit-talking on the ORG, too, by the way. I see you have your Internet Balls on over there. I'll tell you now, there will be no Board-Wars going on between the two sites, so let's get that out of the way now.
Here's where it's at: Raistlin, your boy cataway came on here and started talking some pretty mad chit and making some pretty big claims, and some people offered advice. That starts at Post #1 in this thread. His jetting was whacked, and whacked badly. When people offered him advice on the jetting problem, he decided he mouth off. That's when this started...
It's later discovered that you two don't know the first thing about reading a plug chop - and you both proved that with the comments made. Based on that bad plug chop reading, you started going crazy with jetting. Things only go downhill from there, because you have no baseline to jet from, and no solid idea on how to do a proper plug chop in the first place.
Next... Mixxer is one hell of a tuner. He did some damn fine work with Zonker, and he actually got a stockbore 398cc machine to 40Hp - he's the first guy to do that. He built one badass Z motor, too, in order to do that, and he was running it on a DynoJet ATV/Kart dyno, with an accurate A/Fr from it, Standard correction factor, tuned it to perfection, and he ported the hell out of that head (in addition to the host of other parts on it). He went to 14:1 compression to achieve that 40Hp. He really knows how to get a Z there, and he did it...
You guys are running low compression (12:1), as I stated on the ORG. You only have a few parts on that motor - new style Hotcams, Dyna CDI, full pipe and typical airbox mods... that's it. You still have a stock Mikuni BSR CV carb that isn't tuned properly. Is the head ported or not? You guys are saying different things on the ORG - cataway, you said it wasn't ported. Then you both say it is ported. cataway says he'll get it ported. Whatever - is the thing ported or not? If it is ported, that's one hell of a port job, to bring a stockbore, low compression motor to a true 40Hp. I'm sure mixxer would love to talk to the people that ported that head...
Which leads to another question - is that 40Hp you pulled on the Dynomite dyno still going to pull 40Hp on most other dynos? I don't know about that - really don't know... It sure as hell sounds like it's reading incredibly high, considering the mods (or lack of mods) you have on that motor.
Now, your 450R. You somehow brought the dynographs of your 450R into this - that has nothing to do with it, at all. You're still trying to drag it into an argument, like it means something. That's apples and oranges, man, and it has nothing to do with this. One thing does come to mind, though - if you're getting such a mild-mod Z to reach 40Hp on that dyno, what does that say about the numbers you keep pushing for your 450R? Are they really accurate? I saw the before and after, and that's damn nice - that's what really counts. Good gains! But are those peak numbers right on the money? I don't think they are on the Z - I really don't.
I'm also not offended in the least that a stockbore Z could reach 40Hp - I really don't care, but I think it's cool! I was PMing John left and right before, during, and after that build, and I was hyped that he hit that mark. Am I jealous that someone hit 40Hp with a stockbore? Hell no, I'm not. I just don't think that number is accurate, compared to the mods (or lack of mods) done to that motor. If it was truly done, then that port work is amazing, because that's what is giving it to cataway - because the meager list of other things won't take a Z to 40Hp.
Only one other thing - I've been a member of the ORG for a long time now. I don't come into that place and talk a bunch of smack - never have, never will. I go there for the extreme technical knowledge on that site. THere are a whole BUNCH of really smsart people on that place, and they're damn fun. When I have something to say, I say it there. If I don't have something to say, I read. Post count doesn't mean squat. When I referred to you as "Mister One Post," that was meant not at how many you have, but the fact that you joined this site just to chime in about your buddy (and that first one was right here in this thread). You showed up just to get into an argument, and try to prove a point, and you registered just to fight. Some reason to join a site.
So, is the head ported or not?...
Yet again... knowledge machine *COUGH* trouble making machine *COUGH* at work.....
You'd be amazed at what port jobs can do........ not going to name names. no its not John...... If the guy who ported the head or supposedly ported the head, knew exactly what he was doing, and really did his best, I think you could hit 40 stock bore....
People forget.... Dynos Don't Mean JACK...... when you ride the quad... Thats the dyno that counts... the AZZ dyno.... A dyno w/o an A/F meter is pointless in my opinion, unless you have a big ego, and run your mouth.....oh, and have a nac for putting alot of money into your bike....
You'd be amazed at what port jobs can do........ not going to name names. no its not John...... If the guy who ported the head or supposedly ported the head, knew exactly what he was doing, and really did his best, I think you could hit 40 stock bore....
People forget.... Dynos Don't Mean JACK...... when you ride the quad... Thats the dyno that counts... the AZZ dyno.... A dyno w/o an A/F meter is pointless in my opinion, unless you have a big ego, and run your mouth.....oh, and have a nac for putting alot of money into your bike....
Yes it is ported and polished. I have no idea how accurate the dynomite is compared to the dynojet. I know everyone here uses the dyno jet model.
Personally, I do agree with you normalz, that according to my numbers on my r compared to his numbers on his z, there should be a bigger difference than what there is. I guess we will just have to wait for Mixxer to get up and running, and then see where the chips fall.
Personally, I do agree with you normalz, that according to my numbers on my r compared to his numbers on his z, there should be a bigger difference than what there is. I guess we will just have to wait for Mixxer to get up and running, and then see where the chips fall.
Normal, why are you beating your head against the wall with this guy 
. As we all know most dynos read differently and the one he ran on was obviously reading high. I see it, you see it and most ppl in the know see it and realize that. He may figure it out when he gets his a$$ handed to him by a dyno'd 36 hp Z400.
. As we all know most dynos read differently and the one he ran on was obviously reading high. I see it, you see it and most ppl in the know see it and realize that. He may figure it out when he gets his a$$ handed to him by a dyno'd 36 hp Z400.
QUOTE(SprinterX @ Jan 28 2007, 04:40 AM) [snapback]331866[/snapback]
Normal, why are you beating your head against the wall with this guy . As we all know most dynos read differently and the one he ran on was obviously reading high. I see it, you see it and most ppl in the know see it and realize that. He may figure it out when he gets his a$$ handed to him by a dyno'd 36 hp Z400.
. As we all know most dynos read differently and the one he ran on was obviously reading high. I see it, you see it and most ppl in the know see it and realize that. He may figure it out when he gets his a$$ handed to him by a dyno'd 36 hp Z400. SprinterX when you consider that my run on the dyno was with razer 2 tires, a heavy tire (6ply) i would have no problem with 36 hp . if mixxer is right about knobby tires taking 3 hp
off the run ,and i think he correct as i have no reason to dis believe him, then what would be wrong with 36 hp + 3=39hp .when it went on the dyno ,i was expecting to see 37 hp.
i have only shown what the graphs show , if you dont like it then why dont you send mixxer 100+ dollers ,and we'll see what his dyno shows . so stdollarsart saving your pennies you have a few months a head of you .
i had no planes to do any mods but it had been road hard and was using oil . yeah time for
rings and valve work , if it has to be torn down then why not put in a higher compression
piston ,why not put in cams ,why not port & polish ,it cant get more convenient and timely that that.
now to normal's issue , i can show you were HMF Engineering recommends a 175 main jet for my kind of set up, so it should be of no surprise that it will work, and that it has been done before i came along.
maybe you can explain why it is that if the engine says give more fuel, your going to say no no that enough no one will like it .
BTW i all so know were theres a 450r that using a 210 main jet ,yeah i find that hard to believe ,but its working for him.
hey check this out !!!! what ya think of this dyno run http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=31879 z for a z
my stock bore z will hit the dyno saturday at wpp. ported head, stock carb, pipe, ( iam tapping in to my knowledge fountain)
yall know it as zonker!!!!!!!!!!!the z that made history!!!!!!!!!!
yall know it as zonker!!!!!!!!!!!the z that made history!!!!!!!!!!
settle down guys....
you can't compare runs done on different dynos.... and you surely can't compare any runs unless there are dyno slicks run to hook to the rollers....and a good A\FR reading to dial in the jetting...
the one Tom has tested on is the KMS dyno in phoenix.....PLENTY of guys wont go anywhere near that dyno because it is a tough one to pull big numbers out of....
the Venom Dyno will be up and running soon...
so these guys will all get a chance for comparative data under some very stable conditions...
i hear Tom is maybe going to be in Ohio soon.... so it would be cool to have him come up for some testing too!!
i would like to meet all of you in person
you can't compare runs done on different dynos.... and you surely can't compare any runs unless there are dyno slicks run to hook to the rollers....and a good A\FR reading to dial in the jetting...
the one Tom has tested on is the KMS dyno in phoenix.....PLENTY of guys wont go anywhere near that dyno because it is a tough one to pull big numbers out of....
the Venom Dyno will be up and running soon...
so these guys will all get a chance for comparative data under some very stable conditions...
i hear Tom is maybe going to be in Ohio soon.... so it would be cool to have him come up for some testing too!!
i would like to meet all of you in person
QUOTE(z26beretta @ Jan 31 2007, 10:16 PM) [snapback]333599[/snapback]
yall know it as zonker!!!!!!!!!!!the z that made history!!!!!!!!!!
it isn't zonker anymore.....
my cams...piston... complete intake...ignition...pipe....
aren't there anymore....
and you guys just replaced a crank that was brand new with only 2 hours on it... only seeing duty pulling my 7 & 8 yr old on sleds...with my wife riding...
so back to mechanic 101 school for you guys.....
ok pail listen up you pice of 
i dont know you but some how some where it got f ed up it was bent!!! the rod that is. an the bearings were scored you probley for got to put oil in it just like you forgot to tighten those cam sprocket bolts.
you seem to run your mouth alot where you have no right too.
leave your coments too your self!!!!!
i dont know you but some how some where it got f ed up it was bent!!! the rod that is. an the bearings were scored you probley for got to put oil in it just like you forgot to tighten those cam sprocket bolts.you seem to run your mouth alot where you have no right too.
leave your coments too your self!!!!!
QUOTE(z26beretta @ Feb 1 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]333878[/snapback]
ok pail listen up you pice of i dont know you but some how some where it got f ed up it was bent!!! the rod that is. an the bearings were scored you probley for got to put oil in it just like you forgot to tighten those cam sprocket bolts.
you seem to run your mouth alot where you have no right too.
leave your coments too your self!!!!!
i dont know you but some how some where it got f ed up it was bent!!! the rod that is. an the bearings were scored you probley for got to put oil in it just like you forgot to tighten those cam sprocket bolts.you seem to run your mouth alot where you have no right too.
leave your coments too your self!!!!!
lol...
This thing's done.
Go bitch at eachother somewhere else.
It is interesting though to see the same people over and over in any thread that gets heated, even though they have zero relevance to what is being discussed.
Go bitch at eachother somewhere else.
It is interesting though to see the same people over and over in any thread that gets heated, even though they have zero relevance to what is being discussed.
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