Honda TRX450R Forums: Honda TRX 450R Forum

D-RACER

Nov 14 2005, 04:49 PM

...i tried the 5w40mobil 1 saturday when riding most of the day also did alittle riding sunday,so today i decided to change the tranny side and

...all i could see was metal shavings pouring out..

..i had to clean the tranny out with diesel to get all the metal out....after refulling with some 15w40 until i can get some more gear oil,i thought about the engine side so i rode it really hard and then i drain the engine side after the oil was hot......it looked find infact it looks really good........i also notice that my clutch was slipping with the 5w40 in the tranny.....so all i can say to dez is he was WRONG about using this on both sides...it may be good or great for the engine side,but DO NOT put this oil in your tranny unless you wanna tear up your tranny......i still can't believe all the metal that came out of my tranny,i hope i didn't do any serious damage...

.....i guess thats why honda has a 85w90tranny oil for the trx.....the light stuff tear things up........

you have been warned...

Bako450R

Nov 14 2005, 05:08 PM

i believe dez stated to use it on the engine side only. not sure. i will look it up.

Hammer450r

Nov 14 2005, 06:01 PM

First of all, i highly doubt an oil can shred metal. Sounds like you have yyour own problems, don't blame someone trying to help you out.

OKTRX450R

Nov 14 2005, 07:30 PM

As I recall Dez said you can put it in both tranny and motor...he runs the Rotella in the tranny in the middle of the summer and desert...

Now, Hammer is right...the oil would not have done this. The only reason Dez would have said not to run in the tranny is because of the molly which will basically coat your clutch so it will no longer hold...not shred metal. If anything you will not see any metal from the clutch if you had put molly in.

I too believe you are having trouble with something else...

How many hours on the clutch?

You know, the other thing I have seen when changing oils is the new oil is much better at breaking up the gunk deposited in the tranny previously and you see it all come out at the first change....

mixxer

Nov 14 2005, 07:48 PM

there will ALWAYS be metal flakes in your oil when drained from ANY transmission...nature of the beast..

next, the gear oils and the engine oils are rated on different scales...so a 40wt engine oil is probably right in the same league as a 90wt gear oil in the viscosity department

next, you will notice that in the owners manuals for most any atv 2-stroke or 4-stroke..it states that engine oils are perfectly fine for tranny use.... the 450 honda engine is the only one i know of with a separate oil and trans compartment...almost ALL cycle engines use engine oil, and it lubricates the tranny as well as the engine from the same reservoir

if something is truly wrong with your trans...it isn't from the oil

mixxer

Nov 14 2005, 07:51 PM

also D-Racer, not that this would have anything to do with anything....

but i have been dying to know what year you were born for quite a while now... just for my records

OKTRX450R

Nov 14 2005, 07:57 PM

OMFG!!! I was thinking the same thing...I even went to his profile to look...

Attention MODS: Please require everyone to complete their birthday information upon registering...can we lock all current users out until this is complete to catch all the preexisting members???

QUOTE(mixxer @ Nov 14 2005, 07:51 PM)

also D-Racer, not that this would have anything to do with anything....

but i have been dying to know what year you were born for quite a while now... just for my records
[right][snapback]158796[/snapback][/right]

mixxer

Nov 14 2005, 08:07 PM

QUOTE(OKTRX450R @ Nov 14 2005, 07:57 PM)

OMFG!!! I was thinking the same thing...I even went to his profile to look...

Attention MODS: Please require everyone to complete their birthday information upon registering...can we lock all current users out until this is complete to catch all the preexisting members???

QUOTE(mixxer @ Nov 14 2005, 07:51 PM)

also D-Racer, not that this would have anything to do with anything....

but i have been dying to know what year you were born for quite a while now... just for my records
[right][snapback]158796[/snapback][/right]

[right][snapback]158800[/snapback][/right]

actually i think it would be great to know just how much life experience the person(s) we are dealing with posess

mixxer

Nov 14 2005, 08:21 PM

i wish you much success on your journey...

i was way off base with my age estimate, sorry!!

i was putting you at a whole lot younger...

Hammer450r

Nov 14 2005, 09:00 PM

Ive been useing it for 3 weeks now with no problems. This oil seems way thicker than the Honda oil.

WhiteZee

Nov 14 2005, 09:02 PM

QUOTE(mixxer @ Nov 14 2005, 08:21 PM)

i wish you much success on your journey...

i was way off base with my age estimate, sorry!!

i was putting you at a whole lot younger...
[right][snapback]158815[/snapback][/right]

i was thinking around 14 or 15?

spktho

Nov 14 2005, 09:05 PM

i keep seeing the word clutch... is my bike the only one that has GEARS in the tranny...

I may be stating the obvious, but the clutch is also on the right side that gets lubed by the "gears" or transmission side of the case. Any problems going through the gears when riding?

speedfreak1

Nov 14 2005, 09:22 PM

We believe that you had metal "flakes" coming out of your tranny. We are just trying to "help" you, not rag on you, so don't bite anyone's head off who is trying to give you a hand. I think you may have a problem with your tranny and just because you found it when you changed out a different oil doesn't mean it is the fault of the oil. Blaming it on the oil my be ignoring a larger and more expensive problem. That is all (i think) we are saying.

I also assumed that you were younger by your closed mindedness to others input. Good luck to you and your tranny.

DN1911

Nov 14 2005, 10:14 PM

dez, have you looked into or have any exsperience with Valvolines new Blue diesel oil? (Cummins endorsed it to 10K miles in a diesel engine)

mixxer

Nov 14 2005, 10:49 PM

if dez was ever off base on anything....

it would NOT be on the topic of oils!

ZIPS-TRX

Nov 15 2005, 01:11 PM

I noticed the Butler CAT on your oil analysis.Do you work for them?
I am curious because I work for the CAT dealer in WA.
Thanx again for the oil info.

450RRR

Nov 15 2005, 01:19 PM

Hey Dez....my Walmart was out of Mobile 1 Truck/Suv oil...the ONLY full synthetic oil they had that did NOT have the 'energy converving' or 'for gasoline engines' only labels was Mobile 1 Extended Performance.. ACEA A1/A5, B1/B5 API SL/CF 10W-30 Weight.... it looks like according to your chart that this oil has MOLY in it..... but, would it be good for the engine side...or should I just wait for Truck/Suv oil???? and...its only 30 wt.... which for winter may not be bad... but would love your opinion on this... thanx...

D-RACER

Nov 15 2005, 04:03 PM

QUOTE(dez @ Nov 14 2005, 11:25 PM)

FWIW,

I noted the original thread that we have one report of slippage with the M1 5W40 ... At the end of that m1 5W40 Truck & SUV oil thread, there are 2 reports that say the M1 improved things also ... D-Racer commented also on how it ran:

D-Racer, you mentioned more valvetrain noise when it was hot ... I didn't notice any difference in sound out here in AZ going from Delo 400 15W40 to the 5W40 ... I normally notice things like that too ... I'm anal as hell haha ... Is your cooling system up to snuff and are you jetted ok? .. I saw you are running the HRC kit with a 175 main ... Could it be running a bit lean/hot? ... You ever try a 180 or 185? ... And your needle (I hope it's an HRC) is on the 2nd clip? ... How about a consensus, anyone think he running lean ?

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=14329&st=45
[right][snapback]158885[/snapback][/right]

ive tried a 185 and it sputters under hard accelaration..i'm using a 180 now....i have the needle on the 2clip because theres a noticable difference in throttle responce.......honda rec. that you use the needle on 3clip and 185main.....well we all know that a 185 will not work for everyone.....and has anyone ever tried dynoing a bike with the needle on the 2clip......you may be pleased with the results..

i am........honda has there spec. on the consevrative side.....also when i put it on the 4clip its way FAT......you could smell the fuel when you stop......its like gas is leaking somewhere....thats what made me try the 2clip.....i also run a 55pilot ive tried a 48-50 and i can notice the difference with the 55..

..much better......next time your around a dyno try the 2clip and see how it works...much crisper throttle and accelaration.....oh and its a hrc needle....i'm willing to bet with my carb setting i have better throttle responce than those using a fcr carb..

D-RACER

Nov 15 2005, 04:17 PM

i was using rotella 15w40 in my tranny before,and 5w40 rotella on the engine side.

when i bought the bike it had gear oil in it........when i changed it it came out like honey.........(thick)

i thank you for your info on oils and well spokeness about the subject........

like i said the oil seems to work really good on thje engine side......but because i want to be safe as possible i'm gonna use the rotella 15w40 in the tranny...

some of these guys say they thought i was young,well i thought and think that most of them on here are under 25......some even act 12 if you ask me..........but owell i don't care.........i'm just passing on what i have DONE or seen so that it may help out someone.....

D-RACER

Nov 17 2005, 07:07 PM

i changed my tranny oil today i had some new oil by castor..its for diesel engine 15w40..its CASTOR TECTION EXTRA and said helps extend diesel engine life on the back...API CI-4 PLUS,CI-4,CH-4,CG-4,CF-4/SL;MACK EO-N PREMIUM PLUS 03..well when i drain it there was almost NO metal shavings in it........

...i may continue to run this in the tranny........i've never had the oil come out that clean on the tranny side.

this is what i replaced the mobil 1 5w40 with and drained it today to see the results....very good..

and this stuff is only $5.00 for a gallon jug....from the auto parts store....not bad i think..

JonnyUtah

Nov 27 2005, 01:49 PM

MAN! How do you get Mobile 1 truck/suv? I have tried 3 walmarts here and 3 walmarts in vegas with NO luck! Why is it so popular? I also tried 2 Targets. Walmart has full stock of all the other oils, but this M1 is GONE! One of the clerks said that a guy came in the day they got some in and he bought 15 5-qt jugs of it as soon as they put it on the shelf! Can it be ordered on the internet somehow?

~jon

speedfreak1

Nov 28 2005, 06:35 PM

I got a 5 qt jug of the M1 truck/suv at Wal-mart right after this thread went up. Since then they have been sold out of it.

D-RACER

Nov 29 2005, 06:10 PM

hey dezs i bought some (chevron) delo 400 15w40......(premium)...it says fomulated with ISO-SYN..........my question is when i pour it......it seems alot thicker than the rottella 15w40......why is the same weight oils different in thickness...

is this a better oil than rottella?

KBR

Nov 29 2005, 06:28 PM

Dez, when I drain the Rotella fromthe engine, its almost like water.....
Its weird, never seen oil like that (this is cold too).
Thoughts?

Buttermilk

Nov 30 2005, 01:12 PM

For what it's worth, I put Mobil1 5w-40 in my son's TRX250R (two stroke). It's a well built 250R with a +4 mm stroke and some serious porting.

It seems to be working really well. In fact, the clutch seems a bit 'grabbier' if I could put it that way, with less slippage than before.

Regards,
Buttermilk

D-RACER

Dec 1 2005, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(dez @ Nov 29 2005, 07:18 PM)

QUOTE(D-RACER @ Nov 29 2005, 04:10 PM)

hey dezs i bought some (chevron) delo 400 15w40......(premium)...it says fomulated with ISO-SYN..........my question is when i pour it......it seems alot thicker than the rottella 15w40......why is the same weight oils different in thickness...

is this a better oil than rottella?
[right][snapback]164469[/snapback][/right]

I have found the same thing ... The Delo 400 has a few hundred ppm of moly so don't use it in the trans ...

IMO, I have to wonder if maybe Rotella with their CI-4+ rating, maybe they had a base oil formulation change ... like maybe some group III added with a better VI ... because they didn't add moly to meet that new spec, and Rotella 15W40 smells more like the 5W40 rotella syn ... It used to reak of Phosphorous but the new CI-4+ doesn't ... It was a huge difference in odor ...

I can only speculate ... also, Rotella T 15w40 used to be the cheapest 15W an dnow it's the most expensive ... over $1 a gallon increase with the new rating ... Maybe a better VI than delo now who knows ...

as long as they are stored in the same temp they will fall within the 15W40 pumpability spec though ... pour point is sorta irrelevant ...
[right][snapback]164475[/snapback][/right]

well i put the delo 400 in both sides and its doing really good with less engine noise and no slippage,but i put some in a 400ex and his clutch started slipping REALLY BAD.......i think his clutch was already bad..

slickta

Dec 1 2005, 11:44 PM

We have been running the Royal Purple 10W30 in the engine and tranny. We checked the clutches before the last race and still looked new. The oil always looks like new when we change it. We run this in our drag car and the bearing life is much longer. We ran Mobil 1 in the car before and there was always little flakes in the filter, not enough to even tell what they were. After we switched, the oil filter has nothingl and we've checked the bearings a couple times this year and they still looked like brand new. My question is do you know much about this oil. I know it works in a car, but that is a different beast and like I said so for no problems. But if it will cause problems later I would like to try and stop it before it happens.

slickta

Dec 2 2005, 11:17 AM

We run the full race oil in the drag car. I don't remember the number off hand. In the 450 it is the other. I am kinda confused, so much information here. So what will the moly cause with the clutches. Does that make them slip eventually because of the coating of moly?

slickta

Dec 2 2005, 03:20 PM

Thanks for the info. I will look into another oil for the tranny side.

D-RACER

Dec 14 2005, 08:08 PM

well i change my oil today,its been in there for about 2 weeks....it was black,but had NO metal shaving in it..

..thats the first time i've seen this

.......delo 400 is some really good oil for the engine side....i switched my tranny oil to castor gear lube.....its made to gear box's 80-90w.....and its cheap....no moly and its not synthetic.......and i'm going to stick with this setup.

still can't believe how good that delo 400 15w40 is........NO SHAVINGS....

kilabanshee

Dec 14 2005, 08:38 PM

So whats everyones ride report? I thought the M1 did a pretty good job in both sides. I did notice some really fine metal shavings in my motor size. Nothing that looks out of order. Another thing.... Your not suposed to break your engine in on synthetic oil correct?

xtuner

Dec 14 2005, 09:35 PM

I have only had my 06 450r for a week riden it once (love it)

Where do i get some of the mobile 1 truck/suv syth oil?

Could someone post a picture or a link of what the jug looks like?

I live in Niagara Falls Canada and i can't find it on either side of the border?

I am really enjoying reading all the info on the forum. GREAT JOB GUYS!!!

PADZZ

Mar 17 2006, 10:55 PM

I've noticed 10W-30 Truck and SUV oil, but it looks like the 10W-40 is discontinued?

Old Man

Apr 8 2006, 10:41 PM

QUOTE(D-RACER @ Nov 14 2005, 03:49 PM)

...i tried the 5w40mobil 1 saturday when riding most of the day also did alittle riding sunday,so today i decided to change the tranny side and

...all i could see was metal shavings pouring out..

..i had to clean the tranny out with diesel to get all the metal out....after refulling with some 15w40 until i can get some more gear oil,i thought about the engine side so i rode it really hard and then i drain the engine side after the oil was hot......it looked find infact it looks really good........i also notice that my clutch was slipping with the 5w40 in the tranny.....so all i can say to dez is he was WRONG about using this on both sides...it may be good or great for the engine side,but DO NOT put this oil in your tranny unless you wanna tear up your tranny......i still can't believe all the metal that came out of my tranny,i hope i didn't do any serious damage...

.....i guess thats why honda has a 85w90tranny oil for the trx.....the light stuff tear things up........

you have been warned...

[right][snapback]158678[/snapback][/right]

The Honda Service Manual say Recommended transmission oil "Pro Honda GN4 or HP4 (without molybdenum additives) 4-stroke oil or equivalent motor oil API SG or higher 10w40"

om

Russ

Apr 14 2006, 10:12 AM

I've been useing this for over a year http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorO...win_20W-50.aspx on the engine side.

For the tranny I just use the Honda stuff. I change my oil about every 3 rides if it needs it or not and change my filter every other oil change.

I don't know if you if you are interested about oil but you can look here. It's a boating site alot of the guys use the Mobil 1 V-twin oil in there boat motors. And every other kind of oil. Boat motors run at high RPM's and under alot of load.

The guy going by the name of Hydrocruiser has done alot of research about oils.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthr...light=Mobil+oil

Here is alot of oil info just scroll thru I don't under stand any of it but maybe dez will http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultima...11;t=000310;p=0

frankoholic78

Sep 16 2006, 09:35 PM

We always run the honda HP-TRANS oil in the trans side...and have always ran it with all my CR's and 250R's.with great success...As far as the engine oil goes seems like alot of tests Ive read up on..especially for synthetics for sportbikes show Mobil 1 and AMSOIL as 2 of the best...We have only ran the honda oil's so far though....Interresting about the DELO I have cases of it for my Powerstroke...

FLSwampRat

Feb 1 2007, 05:18 PM

QUOTE(D-RACER @ Nov 14 2005, 04:49 PM) [snapback]158678[/snapback]

...i tried the 5w40mobil 1 saturday when riding most of the day also did alittle riding sunday,so today i decided to change the tranny side and

...all i could see was metal shavings pouring out..

..i had to clean the tranny out with diesel to get all the metal out....after refulling with some 15w40 until i can get some more gear oil,i thought about the engine side so i rode it really hard and then i drain the engine side after the oil was hot......it looked find infact it looks really good........i also notice that my clutch was slipping with the 5w40 in the tranny.....so all i can say to dez is he was WRONG about using this on both sides...it may be good or great for the engine side,but DO NOT put this oil in your tranny unless you wanna tear up your tranny......i still can't believe all the metal that came out of my tranny,i hope i didn't do any serious damage...

.....i guess thats why honda has a 85w90tranny oil for the trx.....the light stuff tear things up........

you have been warned...

I was using all factory recommended fluids and after research I changed to a full synthetic Mobile 1 20/40. I found the noise in the motor quiets down a little, the engine seems to idle a little easier and climb the RPM's a little smoother, the clutch was slipping more than usual if I had to feather it but stiffer springs fixed that. I am OCD with my bike and change oil every time I do a weekend run and change the filters too since they are fairly cheap. I have not yet had any issues and that oil swap was about a year ago. I recent rebuild showed the inside looked brand new.

catman3zj

Feb 10 2007, 12:06 AM

Wow Talking oils is like talking politics, Any mineral base oil is fine in trans,if you read Hondas recomendations,You can run gear oil or multi-grade engine oil just check the API ratings in trans,The lighter oil may have flushed out the metal in your trans,as far as clutch slippage the synthetic oil
will cause that more if there is alot of hrs on it I use Honda HP4M 10-W-40 in engine and run the Honda 80-W-90 in trans
But I do alot of Desert and Dune and trail riding. If you are running in short motos or Drag Racing lighter oils are great because of less
parastetic H.P. loss but long rides and tooling around run the heavyer oils it all boils down to what kind of riding you do
I am willing to give up 2/10ths of H.P. for logevity but thats me but then again Ichange both oils after every 10 hrs.
again my own personal choice All these guys are trying to help based on "Their experence" take what you want and use it
and leave the rest