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Old 09-20-2009, 11:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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My stock 05 CRF450 has north of 50 hp already, so will a stock CRF head bolt up to the TRX cylinder? It seems like they are the same engine from the cylinder up. Maybe just reroute some coolant lines. Also I got 4 seasons [Glamis only] out of my valves in my CRF then needed my first adjustment. Can a complete stock CRF head be used on a TRX and therefore have Dirt Bike style power? After that, some port work on the CRF head will yield even more power than a ported TRX head. Besides, why are these TRXs so under powered in stock form when compared to the rest of the 450 world?
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The CRF heads will bolt on and only minor cooling changes have to be made. Just different hoses. a stock CRF with 50+ hp is a huge stretch from what ive seen. The CRF heads have te ability to have more porting done but the angle of the intake seems to be a hp roadblock on trx's. i would stick with the TRX head and do some porting. you will see a great improvement if te porting is good!
Makes for a fun first ride!
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Just have your trx head ported, to much work to get the crf head to woek right
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i would stick with the TRX head and do some porting. you will see a great improvement if te porting is good!
Makes for a fun first ride![/b]
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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My stock 05 CRF450 has north of 50 hp already, so will a stock CRF head bolt up to the TRX cylinder? It seems like they are the same engine from the cylinder up. Maybe just reroute some coolant lines. Also I got 4 seasons [Glamis only] out of my valves in my CRF then needed my first adjustment. Can a complete stock CRF head be used on a TRX and therefore have Dirt Bike style power? After that, some port work on the CRF head will yield even more power than a ported TRX head. Besides, why are these TRXs so under powered in stock form when compared to the rest of the 450 world?[/b]

Just to answer some questions.... yes, the CRF head 'CAN' work.....but like mentioned.... probably better to just port the stock TRX head.....

you mentioned 'dirt bike style power'..... well remember.... the dirt bikes are RED STICKER machines... vs the GREEN sticker TRX machines.... plus all the differences between Quads and MC's....... you cant really fault the TRX for having to carry so much added weight and geometry issues along with being EPA regulated..... this is the MAIN reason for the differences in performance....

and you always hafta remember one key ingredient not always mentioned between bikes and quads.. WEIGHT.... this is the basic difference in engine configuration, cam upgrades, porting, etc.... WEIGHT... a lighter, more nimble machine can always handle a more aggressive cam profile, porting changes, gearing changes, etc..... whereas a Heavier machine must utilize a completely different engine package....... higher torque cams, higher torque porting restrictions, smaller carb venturis (usually), etc.......

I ride both CR's, CRF's, TRX, etc... 250R's and 450R's....and trust me when I say my TRX's have FAR MORE POWER than my CR's CRF's......but given the MC platform.......of two wheels and light frame..... even my stock CR250R's are quite a bit faster than my MODDED trx's...... its just the platform.....NOT the engine....


jmho....Greg
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My stock 05 CRF450 has north of 50 hp already, so will a stock CRF head bolt up to the TRX cylinder? It seems like they are the same engine from the cylinder up. Maybe just reroute some coolant lines. Also I got 4 seasons [Glamis only] out of my valves in my CRF then needed my first adjustment. Can a complete stock CRF head be used on a TRX and therefore have Dirt Bike style power? After that, some port work on the CRF head will yield even more power than a ported TRX head. Besides, why are these TRXs so under powered in stock form when compared to the rest of the 450 world?[/b]

Just to answer some questions.... yes, the CRF head 'CAN' work.....but like mentioned.... probably better to just port the stock TRX head.....

you mentioned 'dirt bike style power'..... well remember.... the dirt bikes are RED STICKER machines... vs the GREEN sticker TRX machines.... plus all the differences between Quads and MC's....... you cant really fault the TRX for having to carry so much added weight and geometry issues along with being EPA regulated..... this is the MAIN reason for the differences in performance....

and you always hafta remember one key ingredient not always mentioned between bikes and quads.. WEIGHT.... this is the basic difference in engine configuration, cam upgrades, porting, etc.... WEIGHT... a lighter, more nimble machine can always handle a more aggressive cam profile, porting changes, gearing changes, etc..... whereas a Heavier machine must utilize a completely different engine package....... higher torque cams, higher torque porting restrictions, smaller carb venturis (usually), etc.......

I ride both CR's, CRF's, TRX, etc... 250R's and 450R's....and trust me when I say my TRX's have FAR MORE POWER than my CR's CRF's......but given the MC platform.......of two wheels and light frame..... even my stock CR250R's are quite a bit faster than my MODDED trx's...... its just the platform.....NOT the engine....


jmho....Greg
[/b]
Yeah I wasnt comparing CRFs vs TRXs, I know theres a huge weight diff. But I was comparing quads like the yfz450 and the suzuki 450. It seems these two bikes in particular have far more power stock,[especially after intake and pipe mods], than the TRX. The yfz for example with the infamous cam mod mimics the exact dirt bike engine timing and power characteristics[+2hp for free]. The stock suzuki is just ridiculous. So I guess modding the stock head to equal a CRF or other stock quads power output is the only way to go? It seems more expensive to port, I thought maybe a easy "bolt on" solution would be the CRF head. I guees not. Thank you.
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The CRF heads will bolt on and only minor cooling changes have to be made. Just different hoses. a stock CRF with 50+ hp is a huge stretch from what ive seen.The CRF heads have te ability to have more porting done but the angle of the intake seems to be a hp roadblock on trx's. i would stick with the TRX head and do some porting. you will see a great improvement if te porting is good!
Makes for a fun first ride![/b]
On any year north of '05 CRF, a stock head with 13.5:1 piston, MRD pipe, and stage 3 cam is good for 6hp over stock. 56hp without porting. Port it, and you've broken the 60hp barrier, easily. See Thumper Talk and search it. A TRX with this configuration would be very nice. Thank you.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The CRF heads will bolt on and only minor cooling changes have to be made. Just different hoses. a stock CRF with 50+ hp is a huge stretch from what ive seen.The CRF heads have te ability to have more porting done but the angle of the intake seems to be a hp roadblock on trx's. i would stick with the TRX head and do some porting. you will see a great improvement if te porting is good!
Makes for a fun first ride![/b]
On any year north of '05 CRF, a stock head with 13.5:1 piston, MRD pipe, and stage 3 cam is good for 6hp over stock. 56hp without porting. Port it, and you've broken the 60hp barrier, easily. See Thumper Talk and search it. A TRX with this configuration would be very nice. Thank you.
[/b]

im assuming this is to the rear wheels or wheel in this case

lets say your CRF pulls 60hp on the dyno, take the motor out and put it in a trx chassis and you will not get anywhere near that much
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The CRF heads will bolt on and only minor cooling changes have to be made. Just different hoses. a stock CRF with 50+ hp is a huge stretch from what ive seen.The CRF heads have te ability to have more porting done but the angle of the intake seems to be a hp roadblock on trx's. i would stick with the TRX head and do some porting. you will see a great improvement if te porting is good!
Makes for a fun first ride![/b]
On any year north of '05 CRF, a stock head with 13.5:1 piston, MRD pipe, and stage 3 cam is good for 6hp over stock. 56hp without porting. Port it, and you've broken the 60hp barrier, easily. See Thumper Talk and search it. A TRX with this configuration would be very nice. Thank you.
[/b]

im assuming this is to the rear wheels or wheel in this case

lets say your CRF pulls 60hp on the dyno, take the motor out and put it in a trx chassis and you will not get anywhere near that much
[/b]

im not 100% and someone can correct me but i believe a bike reads 15-20% higher than a quad on a dyno?? if theres truth to this a bike with 60hp will be 48hp on a quad??

does this sound right? i cant remember where i seen some talk about this.
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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On any year north of '05 CRF, a stock head with 13.5:1 piston, MRD pipe, and stage 3 cam is good for 6hp over stock. 56hp without porting. Port it, and you've broken the 60hp barrier, easily. See Thumper Talk and search it. A TRX with this configuration would be very nice. Thank you.[/b]
So that means a stock CRF450 is 50hp?

So where is the extra power coming from, is it strictly head design?

Or does it just "look" like more power because they read higher on the dyno like Soyo said?
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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On any year north of '05 CRF, a stock head with 13.5:1 piston, MRD pipe, and stage 3 cam is good for 6hp over stock. 56hp without porting. Port it, and you've broken the 60hp barrier, easily. See Thumper Talk and search it. A TRX with this configuration would be very nice. Thank you.[/b]
So that means a stock CRF450 is 50hp?

So where is the extra power coming from, is it strictly head design?

Or does it just "look" like more power because they read higher on the dyno like Soyo said?
[/b]
The power comes from the CRf engine having 12.1 compression, titanium valves, stock CRF cam is larger than a HCS2, really good exhaust, same things we do to our modded TRX450's that make 50hp w/o porting.
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Old 09-26-2009, 11:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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there really arnt ALL that many differences between a modern CRF and TRX machine... other than the more aggressive ignition timing and bumpstick over a stock TRX....

remember...the 06/newer machines all carry a very similar valve train design.....Ti intakes, same style of porting, but w/o the CRF cam (which by the way is not larger or more aggressive than the HCII, it is actually slightly less aggressive, but makes for some serious Acceleration vs more mid/top end).... it is basically the platform these engines ride in.... take your TRX engine out and put it in a MC frame....then perform the same tests.... watch the difference in performance....

Also....someone mentioned how much faster stock for stock the YFZ450 and Zuke 450's are over the TRX450R... well, that aint really true..... a bone STOCK YFZ and Zuke is about identical to the TRX........ the TRX however just requires a little more work to OPEN them up.... the YFZ can be opened up rather easily due to a dual cam design.... your able to simple 'twist' the cams in order to increase the valve overlap and duration... whereas on the TRX you have to purchase a NEW cam in order to accomplish the same task....they did however re-map the ICM for better performance once the Sub Harness is installed (green wire mod)..... (HRC kit for example)...the Zuke is the easiest to mod....cuzz all you really need to do is purchase the 'cherry bomb'....cuzz all the mods are already done for you.... you just need to allow the computer to work... ignition timing and fuel mapping....which can all be done electronically thanx to the FI..... I hafta assume once Honda goes to FI, they will have a similar mod.... you will get the cam and ICM and pipe STOCK but DE-tuned...then a cheap plug in 'tuner' (cherry bomb) will open her up......or at least I would HOPE Honda would go this same route....


jmho....Greg
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Hot Cams stage III
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Jetting/Carb: #168, #45slow, NGPR needle 3rd clip, #55 Leakjet, Pilot 2 turns out.
Jetting/N2O: 22N/21F (22hp)

*STU Comp Cut 21x12x8 (6) paddle 'Padla Brats' on Douglas Blue label 8x8.....

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Old 10-11-2009, 03:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I remember comparing the 2 honda 450 heads both from 06 this is going of memory & I can post a pic of the 2 side by side.

Possible advantages
the crf450 has a 1mm bigger intake valves & the ports from factory are bigger.

So going off that the cost of increasing the valve diameter on the trx & porting makes one wonder how a CRF head with ports cleaned up would perform????

Mounting to CRF head to TRX Cylinder
Everything including the alignment pins seem to match up & I have slid the crf head on a trx cylinder.

Differences
Crf does not have the thermostat housing, nor the drain line coming off the head
the head stay mount is in the same place near the intake, but is about an 1" wider

The angle of the exhaust or intake seemed a bit different, something once again you could get around if you wanted to.

Now the 05 trx & 06 also seem similar but the alignment bushings have swapped corners. The 09 crf head is quit different & the alignment bushings are both on one side?
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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just remember the performance differences between how increased Intake valves perform vs stock...

then how increased Exhaust valves perform vs stock....

most opt to only increase the exhaust valves on the TRX machines because they have the best overall improvement... once you go larger on the intakes...it seems to make more top end power...but lacks in the low/mid....(not sure why)...

however...the much lighter and quicker platform of the MC lends these machines to utilize this mod.... the much heavier and less efficient drive train of the ATV tends to not like it as much......



to each their own.......Greg
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**06 450ER**... #3 (Dale lives on)

86TRX250R (mostly stock 66mm bore x 72mm stroke) **for sale**
86TRX250R (ESR310 72.5mm bore x 72mm stroke '298cc' fully modded) **SOLD**
88TRX250R (ESR330 77.5mm bore x 74mm stroker '345cc' fully modded)

HRC kit (all but gone)
Hot Cams stage III
Okie porting w/ATP CV4 springs (36mm Ti/31mm)
Venom/KBR N2O Porting w/KW springs (37mm/31mm)
Venom/KBR 487 100mm 14.25:1 piston
Cold Fusion Nitrous**
Venom 'QP' pipe
ESR Pro Series pipe
ESR modded intake w/RAT stack
42mm Taper-Bored FCR
Direct Drive clutch lockout, CR500 springs
GT Thunder-Link w/Durablue Lowering Link
Durablue Anti-Sway Bar
Modded shock mounts
Rage Modded Tranny

Jetting/Carb: #168, #45slow, NGPR needle 3rd clip, #55 Leakjet, Pilot 2 turns out.
Jetting/N2O: 22N/21F (22hp)

*STU Comp Cut 21x12x8 (6) paddle 'Padla Brats' on Douglas Blue label 8x8.....

Thanx to: Venom/KBR (Mixxer/Kam), Rage ATV (Dee), Sredum (Chris), and many ORG members
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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anyone interested I have a RHC CRF head that is ready to bolt on 06 and up. The intake port has been relocated to clear shock mount and it rips.....pm if interested
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