stg 3 advanced - Honda TRX Forums: Honda TRX 450R Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-23-2013, 09:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
400EX Rider
 
joeylowthers450R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: nova scotia, canada
Posts: 1,050
Default stg 3 advanced

hey guys, i am running 06+ engine with 99mm bore, stg3 retarded 3*, fci, 42.5 carb, full hmf

with all the cam talk lately, i was wondering if anyone has advanced cam timing with the stg3, and how far i can advance befor it starts to hurt performance(oh and i did search alot with no luck)

reason for my ? is that i am running in snow and traction means alot but i do enjoy the cam

i do have other cams, and i don't have access to a dyno.

any first hand info that anyone has would be great

thanks
joey
joeylowthers450R is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2013, 11:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
450R Veteran
 
prlandry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New-Brunswick,Canada
Posts: 4,368
Default

What compression you running and what type of fuel?... 91 I assume.

I might be wrong but if you advance the timming you could run into deto.

I was told to leave my 208 web at 4* retarded on my engine as I wanted to run it straight up... If I recall correctly it was to avoid deto running 13:1 on 91.

I'm sure a few knowlegable guys will chime in and give better advice.

I'm curiouse also as I have a HC3 I need to try with my next build with an adjustable gear.

Last edited by prlandry; 01-23-2013 at 04:43 PM.
prlandry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 01:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
400EX Rider
 
joeylowthers450R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: nova scotia, canada
Posts: 1,050
Default

my build is for pump gas peter. i am somewhere close to 12.5 cr or just under.(a little combustion chamber work)

makes sence on maybe getting some deto with too much advance
i can deal with this by mixxing fuels if need be
i had no signs at straight up

i was hoping someone could tell me at what advance it starts showing losses

i don't think many have tried advancing the stg3 since its a top end cam
prob why i can't find any info

i would like to try +3 maybe, but i have 0 info on this so i may wait a bit yet. plus its freezing this week
joeylowthers450R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 05:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
450R Veteran
 
prlandry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New-Brunswick,Canada
Posts: 4,368
Default

Maybe the compression ratio you're running and type of fuel might come into play, with air temp and altitude also might determine what you can get away with. I'm guessing it depends on every situation.

Anyway.... Bump cause I wanna know also.
prlandry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 07:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 309
Default

I have tried many combination with stage 2, stage 3.

The stage 3 seems optimized at stock setting of -5.8 for average and peak.


Here are some projected graphs.








-6.8 (-5.8 is cam card setting)


242/921 info
rocksalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 07:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prlandry View Post
I was told to leave my 208 web at 4* retarded on my engine as I wanted to run it straight up... If I recall correctly it was to avoid deto running 13:1 on 91.
Curious. The web has much more overlap and the dynamic CR is lower (hence the lower torque on the bottom). The only way I can think that would deto would be from scavenging and increased cylinder fill. However, this happens at high RPM where deto is less prone.

The 208/921 total cam advance is 3 retard at cam card.
rocksalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 07:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
400EX Rider
 
joeylowthers450R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: nova scotia, canada
Posts: 1,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksalt View Post
I have tried many combination with stage 2, stage 3.

The stage 3 seems optimized at stock setting of -5.8 for average and peak

The 208/921 total cam advance is 3 retard at cam card.

thanks for your info rock
so this -5.8(stg3) and -3(web) "stock settings",
is this retard that they are setting when built

i have read some older threads that said the sprocket holder are not always set correct

now this has me wondering if my stg3 is really welded straight up or not
joeylowthers450R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 11:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
450R Veteran
 
prlandry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New-Brunswick,Canada
Posts: 4,368
Default

When checked what degree my 208 was at it was 4* retarded from that cams spec. This was with my stock cam sprocket.

Could be because of the decked cylinder to achieve proper squish though. It might have retarded the cam some.
prlandry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 11:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
450R Veteran
 
prlandry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New-Brunswick,Canada
Posts: 4,368
Default

Joey.... Do you have a degree wheel?

What I did was simply save an image of a degree wheel of the net and printed it out... Then glued it to a piece of cardboard.... Voila! instand degree wheel.

My dial indicator is just a cheap princess auto one... It does the job but I need to buy me a more fancy one.
prlandry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 11:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
300EX Rider
 
Slim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 763
Default

Who installed your cam Peter?
__________________
Check out my old bike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zib5mfnBYVo&feature=plcp
To This.....
Slim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 11:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
400EX Rider
 
joeylowthers450R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: nova scotia, canada
Posts: 1,050
Default

i just made my wheel also back when i was playing with spark timing on the ex

i use the cheaper tools also, but i try to have two of most of them so i can verify they are correct

i betcha my numbers are only within a 1/2* one way or the other due to my methods/skill which is ok with me, no dynos and i know how fast timing chains wear which is always changing the cam timing. i even spent the extra to try a wiseco chain. mx333 spoke of 8h life vs 3h with the stocker.
i get more hours myself, but thats still more then double the life

i my have to try and check my stg3, i bought it from demon and they said it was straight up(welded flange)

straight up= 0* or -5.8*
joeylowthers450R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 03:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
450R Veteran
 
prlandry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New-Brunswick,Canada
Posts: 4,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post
Who installed your cam Peter?
I did during my rebuild last summer.
prlandry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 06:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeylowthers450R View Post
straight up= 0* or -5.8*
STG 3 cam card is: INTAKE LC=116 EXHAUST 104.5 This has a total cam advance of -5.8 (retard)
STG 3 "Straight up" = INTAKE LC=110.3 EXHAUST=110.3

208/921 cam card is: INTAKE LC=110 EXHAUST 104 This has a total cam advance of -3 (retard)
208/921 "Straight up" = INTAKE LC=107 EXHAUST=107

STG 2 cam card is: INTAKE LC=112 EXHAUST 104.5 This has a total cam advance of -3.8 (retard)
STG 2 "Straight up" = INTAKE LC=108.3 EXHAUST=108.3

Do you see what is happening? When you retard the cam the intake the lobe center goes up and the exhaust goes down. When the numbers match it is considered "straight up".

What the cam manufacturer did is find the best lobe center for the grind and put it on the cam card. This does not mean it will be the best cam lobe center for your combination.

I typically retard the STG2 3-4 degrees because it runs the best that way for my mods.

Last edited by rocksalt; 01-25-2013 at 05:00 AM.
rocksalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 06:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 309
Default

BTW, have you tried to degree the cam on the intake side? Talk about a PITA. You need a hydraulic magnetic base (or setting the indicator takes 10X more time), an extension on the tip of the 1" dial indicator and PATIENTS! I took an old FCR needle and cut it at the right diameter to thread into the dial indicator after running a die on it. What sucks is the small buckets do not allow good access to them. The larger buckets are not too bad.

The best way to degree is on the intake side because the exhaust does not mean allot in terms of power. Intake much more important. Damned if you do don't and frustrating if you do.
rocksalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 06:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
250EX Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 309
Default

Camshaft Selection -- by Michael Ecker

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...s/viewall.html
Good read.

Last edited by rocksalt; 01-24-2013 at 07:06 PM.
rocksalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:16 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0